Ep #167: How Feminist Business is Changing the Coaching Industry with Melanie Childers

You are listening to episode 167 of The Confident Coaches Podcast, the one where two feminist business coaches revolutionize the coaching industry. Let’s go.

Welcome to the Confident Coaches Podcast, a place for creating the self-confidence you need to do your best work as a life coach. If you want to bring more boldness, more resilience, and more joy to your work, this is the place for you. I’m. Amy Latta, let’s dive in.

Hey, coach, Amy here. So excited for what I’m getting ready to bring you. So, there aren’t introductions in this interview because my friend Melanie Childers and I are two feminist business coaches who market to life coaches on how to create 6-figure businesses. We essentially sell the same result using many of the same practices. We would be called competitors, and yet we are also business besties. Strap in. Y’all about to hear some stuff.

This episode is being broadcast on both my podcast and on Melanie’s podcast. So, this isn’t necessarily me going, “Hey, here’s my friend …” So that’s what this introduction is here. Melanie is a feminist or business coach, creator of The Bad Bitch Mastermind, one of my dearest friends and dearest humans in the entire world. We text message each other, we reach out to one another, we ask each other how you’re doing.

We support one another in our launches and in our business and in our lives, and we, on the surface, it would look like we should be in competition with one another. But there’s so much love here.

This conversation ahead shares what we have learned over the course of years as life coaches, what we believe it means to be a feminist business owner. Why these principles are not just changing the coaching industry, but are imperative to the coaching industry. What that means, why it’s important, why even if you don’t say I’m a feminist coach, also why the principles we share in this episode are essential to any life coaching business.

Strap in, get excited as Melanie and I walk you through how feminist business coaches are changing the coaching industry.

Amy: Alright, my friend. How are you doing today, Miss Melanie?

Melanie: Hi Amy. I’m so glad that we are chatting today and doing a podcast episode. I feel like we talk all the time, and we talk so much fire to each other, and I’m like, “listen, the world is missing out on these conversations.”

Amy: We should hit record.

Melanie: We have much to discuss.

Amy: And also we finish each other’s sentences.

Amy: how long have we been friends? A couple years now, right?

Melanie: Oh my God.

Amy: I don’t even remember.

Melanie: I’m like, I can’t math, Amy. I haven’t had enough coffee. 4? 3, 4 years.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Three, four years. And I think, you know how it is, friends who are listening, like, I don’t even know, like what got us talking outside of non-large room circles, but obviously fire sees fire and I think that’s how Melanie and I found each other.

Melanie: Hundred percent.

Amy: I see the non-conformist in you.

Melanie: I see the feminist rising over there. What’s going on? How are you? How can we help?

Amy: And I would say in, in all fairness, I think I hid mine more behind closed doors than probably you did. And so, I always really love when people see in me what kind of scares the shit out of me a little bit. And I think that’s definitely how I would describe you. I think you lasered in on my fierceness behind this facade of good girl.

And you’re like, I see you bitch. You cannot hide from me.

Melanie: Like I see the twinkle in your eyes. You have a fire. What’s going on? We need to bring that out.

Amy: And so, what I love and why we’re having this conversation obviously, is because we are both fiercely passionate about running, strongly feminist-based, grounded in feminist principles, businesses for coaches.

Melanie: Yep.

Amy: And on the surface, we look very much like we might be competitors and actually we’re the dearest of friends who are texting and messaging each other. And so, we’re just going to like kind of riff off on ethical selling transparent businesses, non-hierarchy in coaching.

Melanie: All of it!

Amy: So, for those of you who are like, “what does it even mean to run a feminist-based business?”

Now I don’t know about you, I think that might be part of your coaching, is to help other women. That’s not necessarily what I am doing. My coaching is definitely grounded in those feminists as principles that you and I have been practicing and learning, but I don’t necessarily coach other women to do that unless they want that advice from me is, is that what you do in Bad Bitch?

Melanie: Yeah, in my Mastermind and The Bad Bitch Mastermind, it is grounded, and feminist principles run through everything, but it’s still, you know, you still have to learn the basic skill sets of selling and marketing and copy and how to make money and how to be visible and how to manage money and how to believe in yourself and your offers and think about your audience. Like all of that is still, you know, the basics of what, what you have to learn to grow a multi 6+ figure business and what I work really hard to do is to look at the underpinnings and the foundation of, are we doing that through a feminist lens? Through a lens that looks at your humanity.

Are you taking care of yourself? At other people’s humanity, are you being respectful and kind? You know, and we look at what I call the toxic dude, bro marketing and selling.

Amy: Yeah, we knew the dude bros would get mentioned.

Melanie: Oh yeah. What are the ways that they’re selling that feel icky to us? And how can we do it in a consensual, loving, kind way that serves people and helps them without pushing on, you know, twisting the, not just pushing on a pain-point, but twisting the knife.

Like your life is going to fall apart unless you buy from me. That’s some bullshit y’all.

Amy: Well, and here’s the thing that I think is really interesting. I got into coaching, actually we are recording this on the week that is my 10-year anniversary of becoming a coach. So, I’m like, really? I’ve gotten a little reflective, a little bit.

Melanie: Of course. I love it. Happy Anniversary.

Amy: Thank you. So, I think about that 10 freaking years ago, and the way I started coaching was through a direct sales program. It was weight loss coaching. It was not Beach Body. Everybody asked, “oh, are you doing Beach Body?” It was AdvoCare, and you know, so I did coach weekly with my clients, but I got paid through those commissions and I remember that dude bro attitude was so ingrained in the multi-level marketing, direct sales paradigm, because I still remember, and I didn’t know why I didn’t know at the time why it was fucked up, I just knew when my upline, my mentor was like, almost verbatim, “you want to tap into their despair and sell from there.” I didn’t even remember thinking that feels gross.

Melanie: Yeah, that feels terrible.

Amy: That feels really gross to find. And it’s just like what you said, it’s one thing to speak to. I know how it feels to, you know, feel ashamed or guilty or, you know, it’s one thing to speak to our potential clients and our client’s daily struggles, et cetera. It’s another, as she said, “tap into the despair and sell from there.”

You put a visual on it of like, twist, not only are we sticking the knife in, we’re twisting it. And this is so prevalent and this is what I think is really happening in the online coaching business world, is we’re starting to see how much of the underbelly tactics that are very prevalent.

And I am not trashing on MLM as an industry. I know a lot of very, and well, you can talk about the word ethical, in a bit, but you know, very well grounded, very conscientious sellers in the m MLM world. Hundred percent, but I think like any industry, The people we pay attention to are the skeezy ones.

Those are the ones that give the industry a bad name. And how much parallel there is between that kind of like, you want to get in there, you want to find what really sucks and you want to like highlight it and you want to find their despair and you want to twist that knife. And it’s so prevalent and it is a very dude bro and how much we see women replicating that.

Melanie: Yeah. And it’s like, it’s, it’s because it’s where, where it started and what we’ve learned and so we think that that’s what selling is, and I think like so many women especially, shy away from selling because that’s all that’s been modeled for us. And so that’s what we think that is the umbrella of selling is that it feels terrible.

It’s hard. Everyone like pushes the pain and twists the knife and creates awful feelings for somebody else, and then they’re going to feel pressured. to say yes or they’re going to feel bad if they say no or they’re going to get angry. Like the way that I think is visually, and so I’m like, I visualize this sales umbrella of what we think sales is and it all feels terrible.

And the truth is that it’s just one way to sell and it’s just so many of us have been taught, and it’s not the only way that they’re actually more effective ways that don’t require any of that, that don’t require someone to feel terrible. Like there is an empowered consensual way to sell to people that has them feeling great, whether they say yes or no.

Amy: Yes. That right there always leaving them better off than how we found them. No matter if they said yes or no to.

Melanie: Yeah. Like we don’t want to drag them into the mud mentally in their minds, and then leave them there and have them feeling terrible about themselves when they leave us.

Amy: Yeah. Because for whatever reason, and I think, first I want to say that is what I always thought selling was. And I am a corporate marketer by trade. Before, I was a stay-home mom, before I got into life coaching, I was in corporate marketing. And I had so many people in my college career when I was interning and in my corporate career, them wanting to put me in sales because I have a dynamic personality.

People love talking to me. I can engage with people. And I literally said I’d rather stick a fork in my eye than do sales, because that’s what I thought sales was, which everything you just described, I’m like, I don’t want to be that. I’m not that person. I don’t want to be that person.

Melanie: Yeah. Well, it’s so interesting because I don’t think I’ve talked to my audience about this either, so, hi friends, this is going to be on both of our podcasts, and you’re going to spill some tea on things you didn’t know about me. One of the first things that I did in college to work for myself, I mean, I worked a huge variety of jobs, but one of them was, I did dip my toes into an MLM thing and I can’t remember what it was.

Something, Herbalife, maybe something, I don’t know.

Amy: That’s a thing. Yeah. Herbalife.

Melanie: But what they told me at the time was, “okay, now go talk to all of your friends and family about what you’re doing and sell to them.” And I was like, “and that’s a no, I’m going to eat all this for myself. Bye.”

Amy: Yeah. I’ve done, two MLMs, one of the first things they do is have you make a list of, of a hundred people that you and then go sell to them.

Melanie: And I was just like, I’m not doing that.

Amy: I’m imagining you with all this Herbalife stuck in your house and being like, “nope.”

Melanie: But seriously, when they had you like sell candy bars for like the drama club or whatever, I would do the same thing. I would be like, “dad, I am not going around to all of our neighbors to sell them candy bars. Will you please give me $20?” And he’s like, “yeah, sure.” And I’m like, “cool, these 20 candy bars are now mine.”

Amy: So, I was on the newspaper in high school, and we had a sales quota. I would just buy the newspapers.

Melanie: Yeah, yeah, exactly, anything to avoid selling to other people.

Amy: I totally forgot about that. I’d be like, “mom, I need money. It’s a newspaper sales.” So, I buy my quota and then I just leave the newspapers out and just like, leave them in the lunchroom. There you go. I took care of it. I’d rather buy all my own product than attempt to sell to you. And isn’t that so funny? That was a high school memory. You’re talking about college. I distinctly remember in college I had an internship at a radio station, and they really wanted me to do radio sales. Now, this is in Kirksville, Missouri with a population of like 18,000. This is not a big market. I wanna be really, really clear, but I knew then, I knew in high school, I knew then I went on a couple sales calls. Oh my gosh, I can’t remember the guy’s name. Oh God, I hope it comes to me in this podcast episode. I don’t think it will. But he gave me all of these tapes. Guys, this is like 1994, 1995. The internet existed but is not what it was today.

He gave me cassettes of the “tiger sales mentality” and he made me listen to these things.

Melanie: If y’all could see me rolling my eyes right now, my God, it hurts.

Amy: And this was a guy that when you were talking to him in a normal conversation, he was talking like this and then he would make me go out on sales calls with him around Kirksville and he turned into the, “hey, hi, how you doing?” And I’d look at him and I’m like, “what’s happening right now. What?” And then I’m listening to these tapes. Oh God, they were so awful. They were like, “don’t ever say I think, always say I feel, tap into their pain and get really emotional.”

And it was talking to people in this over exaggerated, and the thing is, we can spot it a mile away, right?

Melanie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Amy: Like when people say, I don’t want to be a used car salesman. This is what they mean. And I was like, “I can never run a business. I can never be an entrepreneur.”

And even when I had, you know, I really believed in that direct sales product because I had used it already and, you know, sell what you know, kind of thing.

Melanie: Yep.

Amy: But dang, it was a hard go and I knew the tap into despair model felt gross, but that was the only way I was being trained to sell.

Melanie: Yep.

Amy: And I hit silver. That’s the very entry level for those of you who know MLMs, you know, when you hit that first level, I did hit silver because I had one person go all-in with me. Of course, I was selling weight loss. So, hey, talk about tapping into people’s despair.

I was like, why does A feel gross? And B, it’s not really working. And so, it was like that was 2013 and into 2014, I kind of floundered a little bit. And then it was in 2015 that I discovered a podcast called The Life Coach School Podcast. And I was like, wait, thoughts and feelings and actions and negative feelings create more negativity.

Like life coaching 101, right? Now we know more about the nuance, but I was like, no wonder that didn’t work. So, it is really interesting that so much of the life coaching industry still uses those tactics when our own coaching tools tell us they don’t work. It’s a little weird.

Melanie: Fascinating, isn’t it? Well, and I think it’s so interesting to me to see so many people out in the world selling things, services specifically, whether it’s coaching or copywriting or websites or whatever, and selling things with so much urgency and with so much like, “doors are closing tomorrow, but like, “oh my God, get in here now. There’s only one spot.”

And it just feels like they’re shouting from the rooftops about this one last thing. And I think what they don’t realize that they’re doing is creating pressure and having people buy from this pressure and this FOMO that isn’t real and creates like a letdown later.

And so, what you’re actually doing is enrolling people who bought from excitement and then ghosts later. Or they don’t show up, or they’re like, “oh, I got so excited, but this is not what I thought it was going to be.” And it’s like, because they keyed in, and their brain focused on the urgency and the high desire right now instead of like, They bought in once and then they’re like, “oh shit, what is this?

Amy: And this episode on my podcast is coming out after a series of episodes where I have been very open and vulnerable with my audience of owning up to things that I have done that I am now speaking out against.

And this is one of them really using FOMO and you better get in here now, or you’re totally missing out, and I think this is where this conflict comes up, is because we are also seeing in the industry a really strong, like people want to see, I just had a hundred thousand dollars launch, I just had a $200,000 launch.

You know, this idea that these high number short term launches are indicative of goodness, value, and that’s the way it’s supposed to be because that’s not how most of business works. You establish long-term relationships with customers, and this is not a conversation necessarily about, you know, should people run launch-based business models or ongoing based business models.

But I think that’s what a lot of this, like psychology driven, FOMO driven, really tap into people’s in group out group mentality so that I can say I just had a hundred thousand dollars launch and that ability to say that gives us added credibility, but when in reality it gives no indication of the quality of coaching behind that door, and how many people?

For sure, for sure, people have purchased my programs because I used that FOMO-based selling only to realize, I don’t know that this is really the room I was supposed to be in, as opposed to if we detach ourselves and our value and our worthiness in this industry from being able to slap a 100k launcher or 200k or 50k, it doesn’t even really matter what the number is, right?

As opposed to, I serve the hell outta my clients. And we have this ongoing long-term relationship and when people are really ready, they know they’re ready and this is where some intersectionality in that those feminist principles of intersectionality really come into play. That there can be reasons why people can’t join right now.

And it’s not because they’re not dedicated enough, or they’re not committed enough, or they’re not willing enough. People got real shit going on in their lives. And playing on FOMO on purpose, like purposeful FOMO, this is what we’re talking about.

Some people are going to have FOMO no matter what, but purposefully playing on FOMO really discredits real things going on in real people’s lives, and we as life coaches are supposed to be the people supporting that, not aggravating that.

Melanie: Right. Exactly. Well, and so much of the selling that I learned, so I can’t even remember, like at least one MLM could have been two. And nothing wrong with that. We’re just talking specifically about some of the sales training that happens behind the scenes.

One of my first jobs out of college was, I worked at a radio station also in Atlanta, huge market. And I worked in, it was called the traffic department. But the traffic department is not helicopter traffic. It’s ad traffic. On the channels. And so, when ads air and in what order, and so basically processing the sales orders that come through from the salespeople.

And they wanted me moved to sales so bad because, you know, big personality, I’m a lot of fun and goofy and I have no filter and give no fucks. And they were like, you’re going to be great at sales.

And I was like, “but you mean not have to get out in my car and drive through Atlanta traffic and see people and then talk to them and sell to them.” And they’re like, “but you’re going to make so much money.” And I’m like, “but you start at zero. And no. No, it’s no, for me, that feels gross, and I don’t want to do it. And no thank you.” Now they’re calling me. That’s something different. A hundred percent.

But, then another one of my jobs after that, I was like, “okay, I’m going to try sales. They think I’m going to be good at sales.” And I worked for a car dealership, and it was selling new cars, but the mentality was no different. Absolutely no different. And this is so interesting.

It’s exactly the same. And I was like, maybe the sales thing is just not for me. Look at me. I’m coach on sales. I love sales. I know. We just need a better way to do it. That feels less toxic and less triggering for everybody. And I think like coming back to, I have had those big launches.

I have done those things before and I’ve also accidentally, you know, following people that I thought knew better than me. And this is just how we learn. And one of the very first sales programs that I went to went through was like, agitate the pain, and yeah, I’ve pushed on FOMO. I’ve agitated the pain, you know, done false urgency because I’m like, it’s urgency for me because I got a goal to hit by tomorrow.

But I wasn’t focused on them necessarily and what they needed and their deepest desire. And now what I teach is, “oh, okay, we want to collaborate with their desires. We want to collaborate with their dreams. We want to be the person who, through our services, are helping them reach the dreams they truly have.”

And yes, they’re going to have some fears. They have a normal human brain. That doesn’t mean we have to twist on the fears or poke on the despair. Like we keep bringing them back to being in collaboration with their dreams and I call it deciding together. We decide together.

I know a hundred percent I can help you and we’re going to go through the process to make sure that we’re a good fit. And you have to be at a hundred percent like, this is what I want to do also, I want that dream and I want to do this work with you.

And it’s that simple, y’all. It does not have to be super complicated or knife twisty or pain, pushy or pressure or FOMO or any of that shit. Like, it really can be: this is simple and we’re going to do it together if you want to do it together,

Amy: And then asking the question: “So, do you want to do it together?”

And then I think the work that you and I know is really detaching ourselves, that there isn’t anything wrong with us. That there isn’t anything wrong with them if they are still unsure, or if they decide not now, or if they decide that it’s going to be a no for them.

Like really like laying, it all out very as your keyword consensual in a loving way and a supporting way and this is what we’re going to do. And ultimately, they get to decide. And really being careful because I’ve had some people hitting me up in my emails and my DMs of like, you know, I went into this sales call and when I said I wanted more information, the response was, “why do you wanna put your dreams on hold?” Or something along those lines of like, “why, why are you still putting your dreams on hold?”

Non-judgmental is a big key of, you know, feminist coaching room. I think in last week’s episode for me, that was something that I brought up. I know you and I have talked about that really not judging that we can see what the other person needs. We can know that they’re ready.

And we can, and also not judging them if there’s still something standing in their way, and they may not be ready to be coached, and we can offer to if we want. We don’t have to if we don’t want to.

But being careful that the coaching questions that we throw out are not coming from this place of, “come on, what’s wrong with you?” Or “I got a sales quota I got to meet,” or, “my coach I was going to make X number of dollars this month and I need you to say yes so that I can still believe that my long-term goal is coming.”

Melanie: Yeah. “I need you to say yes so that I feel better.” Not because it’s what you need or where you should be or how you feel, or any of that.

Amy: “I need you to say yes so that I can hit that income goal.” And a lot of this just happened because it was the end of the year just a couple of weeks ago.

… “And so, I need you to say yes so that I can say, I made X number of dollars in 2022.” Ew.

Melanie: Ew. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants to feel like a quota. And I think that’s the big thing is like nobody wants to feel like a number.

So, look for, and I think that this is really important, I’m glad you brought it up. Look for any part of your sales process that feels very attached to the sale or that has judgmental questions about this person’s decision yes, or no.

Like what I often say, and I truly do mean it is like, I love you no matter what. I’m on your team forever and ever. No matter what, what do you want to do? What do you deeply desire?

Amy: Yes. And that question right there, what do you really want to do? What do you deeply desire? Really helps them see, feels loving, that feels like, “oh, she is on my team.” And being able to move into more of a place of curiosity if you want to ask more questions as opposed to kind of a judgey, come on now, my emotions are on the line.

Melanie: Right. Well, and I think that there’s, there’s a way for it to be. “Come on now.” That’s not judgey.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Curiosity is a, a great emotion of like, what’s the thing that’s standing in your way? Like, let’s shine a light onto it together. Is this something you’re ready to work through right now or not? And if not, why not? Yeah. But we can do that from curiosity.

Melanie: A hundred percent. And I, I really want to touch back on some of the FOMO just a little bit because I think that there are a lot of containers out in the world, a lot of rooms that edge on like exclusivity. And to me, that automatically sets up once you’re in that room, that you are in that room and therefore you are better than other people because you’re in an exclusive place.

And there are a lot of these out there in the world. A lot just from like me, like taking a step back from lots of programs and looking out at the whole world of offerings. There are a lot of like, “get into this super high-end exclusive thing,” and when you’re there, you feel like you are better than other people and there’s some hierarchy there.

And so, people think before they join, “oh, when I get in there, I’m going to be one of the cool kids.” And the truth of the matter is that it’s just one option. It’s not, you know, none of them are better than any other of them.

None of them are automatically going to literally have everything that you ever need as a business owner, and if they do, you’re going to feel so fucking overwhelmed because it’s way too much shit.

And I don’t love the hierarchy and the better than, and the ego that people get into. And I can say that because I’ve done it, that you feel like, “hey, well, because I’m in this place, I’m better than other people.”

Or, “because I’ve made X amount of money, I’m better than other people.” And so, like if there’s any part of like your ego running your groups or running any containers that you have, or running your own mind, being very aware of is there any part of me that feels better than my clients?

“Is there any part of me that feels better than other service providers in my industry? Is there any part of me that has set up this invisible hierarchy where there’s cool kids at the top and there’s everybody else?

And … “if you aren’t doing what we’re doing, you’re not one of us.” That’s not a way that I want to run my business, it’s not the way that I want to treat my clients. It’s not the way that I want to be treated as a client.

And that sort of invisible hierarchy leaves people to make decisions that are not always in their best interests. They make decisions from FOMO and from wanting to be in the room, then finding, “oh, this wasn’t actually necessarily what I needed,” or always having to battle, “I’m not good enough, I don’t belong. Look how much further along the cool kids are. I’m never going to get there.”

Like, I find that it creates so much fucking drama in their minds and insecurity. that they can’t even hear and get what they need until they work through all their insecurities.

And I work really, really hard. I’ve had some clients come to me and say, “I don’t feel like I belong.” And we coach through it because I’m like, “look, I can’t make that happen for you, but I can tell you that on the backend, these are the things that I’m putting into place to help us dismantle all of that.”

And some of it has been numbers reporting and of course when that happens, people are going to have some drama and some insecurities. And so, what we’re starting to do is think about like, maybe that’s not the most important thing. Maybe we don’t need to be giving out awards for the people who make the most amount of money.

Like that’s great and that’s wonderful. And I want to see representation of people kicking ass and taking names. But I’m also just as concerned with, are you growing your skills? Are you growing your trust in yourself? Are you growing your decisiveness? There are other things that we can be measuring here. And I know I’ve said a lot, so, you go!

Amy: Well actually what was coming up for me was, here are these rooms of cool kids. And then you end up getting into the rooms of cool kids. And then you look around and you’re like, “did I just reach the Sea Org level of Scientology?”

Or are we on just lemmings consistently trying to level up because we think we are somehow going to reach some sort of enlightenment status? And guess what? There’s just another level up past that one

Melanie: I’m just going to drink my tea over here. I’m just going to drink your tea. The fucking work.

Amy: You know that. I really just think this idea of. I do love the idea of being in spaces and being in rooms with people who have reached a level of understanding that is past my own that can challenge my thinking, and how can we do that without it shifting into “they’re better than me … they’re more enlightened than me.”

This goes back to hundreds, if not thousands of years of hierarchy the people at the top no better than I do. That has been so pervasive through our entire human history. This is like how all of all the structures ever have been founded.

Melanie: Literally how Christianity was created. Like literally like none of you are good enough. You have to go through the church to get to God.

Amy: You have to take these steps and you have to go this way and this is your path of ascension. Like, it makes sense. And also there is something to be said, communing in a room of people who are thinking at a higher level than I am.

So, our ability, and I really want everybody to kind of really lean in here and just really notice your ability to be the nuance in the middle of putting yourself in places where people are challenging your thinking.

And because what can happen is the other pendulum where you aren’t challenging your thinking and you have a group of eight or 10 coaches all verifying why they can’t do this and not moving forward because they’re all agreeing with each other’s pain, being like, “yeah, that does really suck for you and this circumstance can never change and it is their fault.” Like, there’s so much in between those two places.

Melanie: I think that that’s the differentiator between commiserating with each other, and then that ends up being like a pull the crabs back in the bucket metaphor, versus like, let’s have compassion for where you are and let’s challenge what possible for you.

Amy: Yes. And I really think this idea that there is, and, and that the interesting thing is, is we have really associated higher levels of income with enlightenment and higher-level thinking and “better.”

And maybe that’s true, maybe that’s not, but I think we would really just really need to pay attention to, and this is so funny, I  keep promising my listeners a capitalism podcast episode because I bring it up so often of like, how can we be badass, fierce, amazing women who want to make fuck all money and also not perpetuate the systemically oppressive systems that capitalism inherently can bring, but this association with goodness, with wealth.

Melanie Yeah. I mean we can use Elon Musk as a prime example, and sorry to offend some people, some people are going to be pissed off when I say this, but he had this almost like God-like status of being a brilliant genius who could do no wrong, who could walk into companies and make them profitable. And I really feel like a lot of people thought he was brilliant and a fucking genius and could literally do no wrong.

And like we see what’s happening at Twitter and it’s like, no, he’s just a dumb-dumb like everybody else, who was born into money. If you didn’t know, he was born into money, literally had a silver spoon in his mouth. His mommy gave him money to start his first business.

He’s not any better than or smarter than or more enlightened. He might have good ideas, but so do you. He just might have his brain practiced to shoot out ideas like super-quick. Whereas the rest of us just haven’t had that practice yet. And so, like he’s not a better businessman than anybody else.

Like look at what he’s done to himself with Twitter.

Amy: So, the Twitter. Yeah, between Twitter and Tesla, both companies are tanking right now at the helm of this supposed genius. I’m an active Twitter user. I have been on the front lines of like, “is this really what’s happening right now? I thought this was supposed to be one of the most brilliant men in the world.”

I have been since, found out that a lot of his ideas, he’s been the investor in good ideas. He’s not even the originator of half of these great ideas that he’s like known for. He just got, money.

Melanie: He’s as a big dummy as the rest of us. He has more money to blow on it.

Amy: Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie Glass Onion on Netflix right now.

Melanie: We watched it the night that it came out on Netflix, and we were like dying, like drooling, gagging like, “my God, this is so Elon Musk. This detective is just dumb.” He’s dumb and has a lot of money.

Amy: Oh, it’s so funny, so, so funny. And I mean, we kind of went with an extreme there. I think with anything in all of these conversations, there’s so much freaking nuance to all of it. And I think just really seeing, you know, can we create spaces?

Can we create rooms where we do want to empower women who have been kept away from power and wealth and particularly, you know, non-white women, non-heteronormative women, those who’ve been historically oppressed. And being able to show them, yeah, you too can make fuck all money. You too can create whatever you want to create.

And also, we can do it in a way that is not elevating one group of people over another. Or, you know, I know something that kept me away from money for a really long time, is I just had the assumption because this is what’s been modeled so much, is that people with a lot of money are, are horrible people. They’re assholes. And it’s so interesting how in this life coaching world and a lot of the bro dude energy can be there where you’re like, “these guys are kind of dicks and like, wait, we’re supposed to be life coaches who are in tune with our thoughts and our feelings and empowerment and all of that.”

And also, some people are real assholes behind closed doors and kinda perpetuating that myth of like, money, you know, money’s going to make me an asshole. Well, or maybe money’s just going to make you more of already what you were.

I think it was really just comes down to it really detaching ethical worth, moral value from income that having a lot of one thing or not having a lot of other means, nothing to you morally or ethically, that all manner of people will fall across all manner of income spectrum.

And really creating spaces that allow people to find the nuance that feels really amazing to them.

Melanie: Yeah, and I just coming back to. The things that culturally we think about money and success is like more money equals that you’re more success, more successful and better, but also more money means you’re a horrible person.

And so, it’s like “I desire that, and I don’t want it.” And I don’t want it like sort of seesaw that happens. That’s like, this is why I think so many women especially get tripped up. And then we have the added layer of sales feels gross and we’ve been taught culturally that money’s not for us and we don’t know how to handle it.

We don’t know what to do with it. We’re just going to blow it all. And if we’re not blowing it all, then we should be clipping coupons and being super thrifty. It’s like they’re all of these cultural messages about success, wealth, sales, marketing, money, having a business and what it means for women of all varieties in a culture. That is built for white men.

What it means for everybody else is that we have all of these mixed messages in our head, and it’s really hard to figure out what feels right for you and is it okay if you make money and is it okay to be ambitious, and is it okay to want more?

Amy: It’s so interesting that not only is it not for us and it’s only for the chosen few at the top, but then we see the chosen few at the top. We have a society that emulates them as well as highlights assholery.

So, like, who wants to be a part of that when really, I talk so much about nuance to my audience about multiple things, being able to be true at the same time. And challenging, is it possible that you can make an unlimited amount of money and in simplest terms, be a good person? Can you be a good person?

It sounds like a simple question. People have a hard time answering that. And it’s really funny because I think, and full disclosure, for me, I can feel the physical reaction I still have sometimes of like, well, “if I was a really good person then I wouldn’t be somebody who wants to make too much money. I mean, there’s a reasonable amount, right?”

I can see that socialization from a very young age and what’s been pervasive in movies and social media and just media across all time messages that my mom and my dad reiterated to me over and over again, “money is hard. If you have a lot of money, you probably had to shit on somebody in order to get it.”

“That’s not, that’s not for us.” That was a big one growing up, and can I still be somebody who creates non-judgmental spaces and who doesn’t see themselves on a higher plateau as everybody else in the room.

But we talk about the qualities of a feminine based business if non-hierarchical, all of those things that you and I have talked about repeatedly about what the values we see in our coaching rooms of being transparent, non-judgmental, empathic.

That we can be these human beings who see other human beings in their beautiful, imperfect human state and also value creating so much wealth. I will admit I want to be able to create a lot of wealth because I know it is going to affect the communities that I am in, that I’m going to use, that I already am elevating as much as I can around me, the more that I bring in.

Melanie: Well, and I think what we often forget when we’re focused on, you know, what culture has told us that money means, and whether or not having wealth is for us, like that’s focused on us personally, and it’s really easy to forget that, “hold on. This isn’t just about me; this is about the communities that I give back to.” This is about the causes that I give back to and care about.”

And this is about because we’re business coaches. This is about the ripple effect into every single person in our spheres communities, so that they’re able to give back help, that they’re able to lift up their communities as well. And when we’re just thinking about ourselves and we forget about the ripple impact across every single person that we touch, and every single person who is in our sphere, whether they ever pay us or not.

And the ways that we are helping other humans put these practices into their own businesses, is it’s not me or you, or either one of us. Bottom line, it is about the cultural impact we are making at the business paradigm level and at the community outreach and community uplifting level.

Every time I have auto deposits that go to several different causes that I care deeply about. So, Planned Parenthood, gets some, some breast cancer research gets some because I’m a survivor. The Trevor Project gets some, I gave some to the Ukraine, a fund for Ukraine, and like that happens every month.

SBLC is another one. And I literally stop and think about all of the people who have made that possible, whether it’s a big donation or not, but I look at them at the end of the year too and I’m like, damn, we did that, y’all. And if every single one of us is able to do that at bigger and bigger levels, what a fucking difference we can make.

Amy: Yeah, I think one of the favorite things that, because I do the same thing. There’s one place that I donate to, it’s local here to St. Louis. I need to write them a letter because they send me a postage-paid stamped letter every single month thanking me for my donation. I’m like, “would you keep those $2 of my donation rather just send me an end of the end of the year.”

But I do the same thing. I’ve got like 10 or 15 those that are sending me paper thank yous in the mail every single month. I need to tell them, quit spending my donation on that.

One of the favorite groups that I have found are local organizations that serve both men and women coming out of prison and jail and reentering into the workforce and the workplace.

Because when I really think about, we’ve mentioned intersectionality a few times of, you know, the privileges that have been on my side just from the sheer fact that I was raised by two white people, and while we were quite poor when I was young, by the time I was in high school, we were middle class and I was able to go to college.

I had parents that made sure that I did my homework and made sure that I was in those rooms. Like just the privileges that are on our side. I think that gets very overlooked also in these coaching rooms and these coaching communities. So, one way that I can, you know, where are those communities where there is privilege lacking that I can funnel some of my income to help elevate them because I’m acknowledging that I am a heterosexual cis female white.

I was married with a husband who made a perfectly lovely full-time income that could support my family while I built my business. I’m perceived to be of Christian faith. I’m not actually of any particular faith, but I’m very secular.

But, you know, I’m perceived to be all of these things that are in my favor and how many people are out there and they don’t have that in their favor. And how much of us, like life coaches who are supposed to be empaths and seeing those things, how much we disregard our own privilege that allowed us to get here, and it’s not just allowing for that in the coaching rooms. But also, how are we showing up in our own worlds of really honoring, and this doesn’t mean I haven’t worked my ass off for what I’ve created. For sure. And also, it’s just been easier for us. It has. As hard as it’s been, it’s been easier.

And I really think this message right here is as hard as it is for anybody to build something from absolutely nothing. It’s easier for a whole hell of a lot of us than it is for other people, and not acknowledging that does a disservice. It does a disservice to us too.

Melanie: Oh, hell yeah. Absolutely.

Amy: Because we know on a subconscious level that it’s uneasy for us and we just like want to pretend that it’s not a hundred percent, but acknowledging it means that we have the power to do different and to create spaces in our programs. And to create spaces out in the world where we can do better and help others.

Melanie: With what we do have.

Amy: Exactly. Yeah. And that feels really freaking amazing. My friends.

Melanie: Yeah. That’s the kind of business I want to build.

Amy: That’s the kind of business that I want to build that doesn’t hide from that.

Melanie: Someone like Jeff Bezos who’s like, “I’m just going to sit over here on my 400 billion,” however much I don’t know. And it’s all for him. Like then why, what was the point of that? You have so much money that like there isn’t anything you can’t buy. What was the point?

Amy: Well, you can send a giant penis in the space.

Melanie: I mean, we all have dreams. Amy, God.

Amy: Giant blue dick. He launched right into space. That was the point of it all, Melanie.

Melanie: That was the point of it all. Put a dick in space.

Well, yeah, I mean I think about like there is so much good that we can do with our platforms, with our influence, with the money that we do make. And to me, that is a core part of my business mission is, it’s not for me. It really is for my clients. My communities, the people that we want to do better for.

But if we’re sitting over here like, “I can’t make money, money is not for me, I shouldn’t do that because wealthy people are gross, then we’re not going to be able to make the impact.”

I’m sorry. Money is power right now. Money is power and, and capitalism, and this is the world that we live in. And until we’re able to change it, that is how it’s going to be.

And do what you got to do to get where you need to go so that we can do things differently, and so that we can help more people get out of this pattern.

Amy: Yeah. It’s really interesting, for years I had talked about women taking up more spaces at tables of power, and it’s only been recently that I’m like, “or maybe we just construct our own damn tables?” And that’s really where we are in this entrepreneurial space, that we can actually build completely brand-new tables.

We have that ability; we have all the resources available to us. For some of us, it will be easier to build those tables than for others. So, let’s invite the people who aren’t yet able to build their own tables to our table because that is really is the impact that we can have when we are running feminine based feminist-based companies.

And I think it’s really interesting. I do feel the need, because I’m going to repeat this 2,700 times until it really gets into people’s brains because I have had people say that they love the work that I’m doing, but they don’t want to hate their dads, or they don’t want to hate their husbands because I’m a feminist business coach.

So, for the 27th time, for everybody who needs to hear it,

Melanie: We don’t hate men. Stop it. We don’t. I literally, my husband and I are celebrating 20 years of marriage this year, and I’m raising two teen boys. Even the dog is a boy in this house. I am literally surrounded by men I adore. I am the only female.

Feminism is for men too because patriarchy hurts men just as much as it hurts women.

Melanie: The paradigm is fucked up all the way around.

Amy: All the way around, all the way around everybody. And fighting the patriarchy. Dismantling the patriarchy. You know, building businesses or surrounding yourself with women who are leading from feminine-based principles is not man-hating. It is men-affirming.

It’s women elevating to a man’s level. I know there’s a lot of people like, “how dare you say I’m just as equal as a man. I’m even more powerful.” You all know what I mean, where we are talking about affirming men.

I really saw when my husband was let go from his job during 2020, for about six weeks he was unemployed and watching the patriarchy rise to the surface in him and how his value of a being a man he felt like was pulled out from under him.

And I was already on this path, let’s be honest. I’ve been spouting feminism for a long time, but that was a huge catalyst for me to start speaking up more about the need for these conversations, for these spaces. And to be able to say out loud, I’m not, we’re not hiding anymore.

These are feminist-based companies. Yes. I’m not going to not say the word, and just kind of eek it out there in small doses, but loud and proud because when I saw what patriarchal thinking and structures did to my own husband, it was like, “uhuh, everyone needs it. It’s for everybody.”

Melanie: Yep. And that happened for me too, when Mark lost his company’s position.

He was between spaces and didn’t know where he was going to end up. And it was very stressful for him, and up came all of these things like, “I’m supposed to be providing, I’m supposed to be handling all of these things for you. I’m supposed to make it like this and keep you from worrying about money … oh no, what does this mean about me?”

And it’s like, yeah, hi. This is a thing that affects literally everybody. And what I also want to say about that too is that it’s not this group versus this group. It is a collective humanitarian uprising of treating everyone with dignity, treating ourselves in our businesses with dignity, treating our clients with dignity and not like numbers.

That is what having a feminist business is to me, is where I don’t feel like I am better, or I know better than everybody else in the room. We’re all equals. And yes, that’s the way that I treat my clients. That’s the way that I talk to my audience. And coming back to selling and marketing, it’s about treating people like humans.

That’s it. It’s not men versus women. It’s not, we’re greater and they’re less. It’s none of that. It is, we’re all equal and we all deserve to belong, and we all deserve to be treated with respect. Period.

Amy: Yeah. Business with dignity. I think you could sum it up with that. This is how we do business with dignity. Dignity for ourselves, dignity for our audiences, dignity for our clients, and dignity for our families that are affected by us running these businesses also.

There was nothing like watching Trey’s, questioning his entire manhood because he wasn’t working for six weeks, what the hell?

So do we have anything else? I feel like we’ve covered like such a huge birth of information, and we could probably talk for another hour.

Melanie: We could talk for days, literally. The only thing that I wanted to add that I think is, is awesome about what you and I are doing and some of our peers as well, is the transparency of what happens behind the scenes.

And I’m going to be doing more and more of that because I think it is so valuable for people to see what goes on behind a launch and when you don’t hit your goals. I didn’t hit my goal for, for 2022, and it’s okay. It’s not a big deal.

It’s fine. Like, I’m very transparent with that, with my mastermind, with the upcoming mastermind. I’m going to be launching that again. I didn’t hit the numbers that I would’ve liked to have hit, and it’s okay, no one’s going to die because I didn’t hit a goal.

But I think the ways that we’re processing through our business decisions, here are the things that are happening behind closed doors. I’m using my air quotes because like, “why do we need a closed door? Why?”

Amy: Well, that transparency I think really sets up that there are rooms of these elite performers who always hit goals and always land what they say they’re going to land, and it’s literally not ever how business works.

And if you have studied any business ever, the biggest companies in the world who have amazing track work records can launch a campaign and it did not work and not land with people, and like can you imagine if Apple shut down because they launched a product that nobody really wanted to buy?

No. They’d be like, “well, shit, that didn’t work. Let’s evaluate why it didn’t work, and are we going to try it again? Do we need to make modifications?

And being able to show that behind closed doors. I think this idea that not we should always be making the same or more money every year, and every launch should be higher and higher and better and better.

That’s literally not how business works, and it sets people up to not be able to do what is actually required, which is, “okay, that didn’t go the way that I thought it was going to go.” Doesn’t mean I’m a piece of shit, doesn’t mean my audience is a piece of shit. Okay, let’s get that outta the way first. Let’s clean that thinking up.

Now what do I want to do? What do I see? What’s confusing to me? What’s surprising to me? What do I, what are some ideas of how I could do that differently? But I want to scrap this and try an entirely different way. Do I want to put the same thing out, but maybe small tweaks and having a coach, whether it, we could do a whole podcast just on how Melanie and I technically sell to the same audience, a very similar model.

Like, so whether you have me in your ear or whether you have Melanie in your ear or in your brain actually doesn’t even really freaking matter. We’re both fucking amazing no matter what. Having a coach by your side to help you process through that because that is normal.

Melanie didn’t hit her goal. I did not hit my goal last year. I actually made an entire reel how I actually, it wasn’t purposeful in terms of, I started the year at year 2022 to make less money, but a lot of big things happened in the first quarter or two that then proceeded to take about four months.

I didn’t take four months off. I took four months off from really launching and selling. That was what was purposeful, and so I was like, if I do this, I’m probably not going to make the same amount of money I made last year, and then I didn’t. And It’s okay. No one died.

My CFO was like, “yeah, that’s cool, alright. Okay. Let’s figure out what you need to do. It’s no big deal. I don’t know if you know this, but this is actually pretty normal.”

So having, having people by my side, because so much of our industry is not really showing you, and what happens is, “here is the produced after, after evaluation,” As opposed to the in the trenches. This is actually what’s happening in real time and how I’m processing through it.

And here is my disappointment and not the whitewashed or the glossy version of I failed.

Melanie: You don’t reality hear the internal screaming y’all. No one gets that podcast.

Amy: And to be really clear, I don’t know if anybody really wants five episodes of Amy bawling, crying, processing my emotion.

Melanie: Probably, probably not. But just know that there’s lots of bullshit that happens in our brains too, and it’s normal and it’s okay.

Amy: Yeah, and there is no special elite room. There is no amazing room. There’s no dollar level, there’s no income level, there’s no client number level where you won’t set a goal or make a decision and it doesn’t work. And we don’t have to play that on tech difficulties. And we don’t have to be like, “oh, I was just so excited I decided to let more people in.”

Can we be honest? I tried something and this is actually what happened. I literally started in December trying shit I’ve never tried before, and I legitimately don’t know if it’s going to work. Let’s see what happens. Because my ability to do this and to show you how to do it is actually what’s going to make us long term successful.

Now that being said, my audience knows, I actually do have a lot of tech shit go wrong. How many times I’ve gone live with no sound. Yesterday I ran a class for my Free to Paid Coach and I was like, I advertised we’re going to have chat set up. And I tested it and then when we went live.

It didn’t work. So, you know, I say that jokingly because like sometimes tech problems really do happen, but really making sure that we see like, are you in the space of people who are being truthful and honest of what it really looks like behind closed doors?

Because your business coach needs to be able to be somebody who can say, this is reality. This is what running a business is. It’s not consecutive growth, like a straight line, or purposefully choosing to make the same amount of money this year and this is the value of non-growth years.

Like, yes, those are very important, but also sometimes we don’t make the same amount of money and it wasn’t planned, and that’s not devastation.

Melanie: Yeah, and it’s definitely valuable to have someone there who is a little bit ahead of ahead of you in experience. Who’s been through some shit, who’s tried a bunch of things and failed and succeeded. And can help you see the pitfalls that are going to happen. And help direct you around them. And then it’s your agency whether you decide to listen or not.

And I think that that in the coaching relationship is so valuable and important because y’all have tried damn near everything and doesn’t always work out.

And I think when you put yourself in rooms where it looks like on the outside, everybody’s winning, nobody fails. And if they do fail, they have no drama about it. There’s no freaking out, right?

If everybody looks perfect and polished, I would be questioning what else is going on here. Because for me, that would queue up a lot of insecurity and a lot of like personal turmoil of, “I don’t think I fit in here. I’m never going to do a perfect launch; I’m never going to have a year where I hit all of my goals. Why would I put myself in rooms where everybody looks perfect?” And I know that that’s going to queue up in security.

I would much rather be in a room where people are being real and transparent and not always the cleaned-up version of real. Like it’s okay to cry. It’s okay to be confused. It’s okay to be frustrated. It’s okay to feel your feelings and to display them. You don’t have to come all perfectly presented and work through it all in my not-so-humble fucking opinion.

Amy: Well, and I even think it’s kind of fun, like to really break some brains right now of like, what if you intentionally set goals that were so uncomfortable, and you went after them anyway and then didn’t hit them. And you still learned so much, and so like, I don’t think there’s a wrong way to do goal setting either.

If you wanted, like set goals that you know, like that are just outside of your comfort zone, that are way far outside of your comfort zone. I think when we talk about goal setting, we’re really attaching our worthiness of being a life coach in this space to whether or not we’re hitting goals and, and it can be exacerbated.

When we are in spaces where it looks like everybody else is setting and hitting every goal, and you’re like, “I’m this weird, and awkward. This isn’t working for me. I feel like this space, like I’m not that person.”

I have a client right now, she’s like, “I’m going to try not setting a goal … I’m really listening to my intuition. I’ve set a goal every single year and felt massive disappointment, and I think this year I’m going to try not setting a goal.”

And, and this may not work for everybody. Like I have a history with this person, and I know what her work is and isn’t, and I’m like, “I think you should.” And she’s like, “and I’m just open to everything that comes to me.” And I was like, “ah, I love that kind of energy.”

She’s like, already, she’s already doing these better, these first two weeks of the year. Now I’m sure in the future I might need to coach her through some things for sure. But I just really think being in rooms where there’s no wrong way to do this. And anybody that is telling you, you are doing this wrong, and again, it’s all about nuance because sometimes we can’t see clients going, going down a side alley and you’re like, “whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.”

Melanie: Yes. “What are you doing? Stop. Whatcha, are you doing? Stop doing that.”

Amy: But I agree the transparency between coach and coachee, you know, coach and client and back and forth, I think is so important.

And it creates safety, and it creates trust.

Melanie: A hundred percent.

Amy: And that all comes back to, again, those feminist values of creating safety, creating trust, and you have to have transparency.

Melanie: I a hundred percent agree.

Amy: Are there any other tangents? The “one last thing,” 20 minutes later.

Melanie: I think we should pause for here. We can always do an update episode.

Amy: Oh, my goodness, Melanie, I just think you are fantastic, and I really do want everybody to know that Melanie and I are not putting on airs. We are texting each other with, “how’s your launch going? How are you feeling? How are you doing today? Hey bitch, it’s been two weeks. What’s going on with you? I haven’t heard anything.”

Melanie: “Where are you?”

Amy: “Are you okay? Are you in the depths of despair? Do you need an hour to pull back out?” Like we really are doing that when we say we really, I really think that is your ability to find 1, 2, 5, it doesn’t even really matter, people that get you, that see you.

Were just different enough that Melanie can see the shit in me, and I can see the shit in her that needs to be called out. And that relationship is like, I really do value our relationship and knowing that we are bouncing ideas off of each other.

Melanie: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, and anywhere that you feel like you’re in competition with somebody who’s doing something similar to you, like, holy shit, grab that person and hold them fast. Make friends with them. Like, I think that that was one of our, our, our biggest things was like, you know what? It would be super easy for us to be like, “okay, well I think you’re rad, but we’re competitors, so F you. And instead, we were like, “hold on, what if we like build each other up. And what if we did this together?”

And what if we saw this as like, this is an all boats rising mission, and some people are going to love your vibe and some people are going to love my vibe. And some people are going to love somebody else’s vibe. And it truly doesn’t matter at the end because we are all doing the same work and all working on the same mission, and we’re not always going to be in the same lane on this 26-lane highway.

Amy: So good. I love you. You’re amazing.

Melanie: I love you. You’re amazing. I’m so glad we did this together.

All right, y’all check out Amy at www.amylatta.com.

Amy: We are currently enrolling for my Path to 100k Mastermind, plus I do have a, a program called Free to Paid Coach. We’re just finding all that patriarchal thinking that’s in your brain, that’s keeping you from being the amazing, competent, paid coach that you can be.

And Ms. Melanie can be found at …

Melanie: I’m at www.melaniechilders.com and I still have some spots available in the Bad Bitch Mastermind where we work on growing skill building, building up your business to multiple six-figures in 1.0. And then in 2.0 we work on scaling projects that bring more people to you and that help you sell to more and more humans so that we can change the world together.

Amy: So good. And obviously you can find us on our respective podcasts.

I always end my podcast with, “listen, this was amazing for sure. You heard some amazing nuggets. You heard something today that you needed to hear.”

So, when you are listening to this, hop on the Instagrams. Give us a tag. I am at, @iamamylatta Melanie, what’s yours? I am @melaniechilderscoaching.

Give us a tag, give us a shout out in your stories. We will replicate and share out there with you. And we just, for real, Melanie and I, no matter whether you are working with us or another business coach, we see you, we hear you.

We know the real deal, and we’re just honored to be in your ears today

Melanie: Amen. Yeah, we dropped some gold nuggets up in here. So, tag us, share with the world, and make sure that they know that there are feminists business podcasts out here in the world making a big ass difference. Send them to us.

Amy: Alright, bye my friend.

Melanie: Bye.

I mean, I wasn’t lying, was I right coaches? I can’t wait to see what you have to say. What stuck out with you here? You know, we talked about non-icky sales, non-FOMO sales. That whole conversation about fomo and like so many of the coaching practices and sales practices, they’re so prevalent in online business.

This is not the first time we’ve had this conversation. This interview obviously came after weeks of sharing so much of what I’ve experienced that we weren’t robots repeating the same lines.

Yes, there was a lot of understanding, a lot of collaboration, but there was also, I kind of do it this way. We don’t have to all do things at the same time. I really love the conversation around wealth and having money and can you be a good person around having money. There’s so much thoughts that we have in society about people with a lot of wealth, and I do call out the people who have a lot of wealth, who are doing damage to others while also believing that wealth doesn’t inherently do the damage. It’s the person that does it.

And just overall, the up-leveling of every community that we can be in when we keep those feminist coaching principles at our core.

I hope this interview opened up some doorways in your thinking, and please connect with both of us on social media and let us know what’s the one thing you want to focus on this year and your coaching business that helps propel this industry forward and up?  Uplevels it. I cannot wait to hear, and I’ll talk to you next week.

Coach, it’s time to sign your first free client, your first paid client, your next client, and to learn how to do it consistently and having a hell of a lot of fun along the way. This is exactly what you’re going to do in Free to Paid Coach. It’s the only program giving you step-by-step what to do to become a paid coach and step-by-step how to handle the roller coaster emotions that come with doing what you need to do to become a paid coach.

If you know you can’t not do this life coaching thing, but believing that you can do it, handling rejection and remembering how to do all of those things shuts you down, the Free to Paid Coach Community is waiting for you. Find everything that you’re looking for inside. It’s only $1,000. Payments are available, and then you’re in forever.

Visit www.amylatta.com/ftpc to join us right now. See you inside. Let’s get paid, coach.

Thanks so much for listening to The Confident Coaches Podcast. I invite you to learn more. Come visit me at amylatta.com and until next week, let’s go do epic stuff.