Ep #125: The Patriarchy Keeps You From Getting Paid

You are listening to episode 125 of The Confident Coaches Podcast, the one where we smash some patriarchy. Because we’re going to have to if you want to get paid. All right, coach, let’s go.

Welcome to The Confident Coaches Podcast, a place for creating the self-confidence you need to do your best work as a life coach. If you want to bring more boldness, more resilience, and more joy to your work, this is the place for you. I’m your host, Amy Latta. Let’s dive in.

Hello, coach, how are you? Amazing. It is the last week of March and we are officially entering April next week, or later this week. And you know what that means? Happy birthday month. If y’all know both me and my husband will be celebrating our birthdays in just a week.

And in just a week I’ll be traveling to Austin. If you are a coach that has graduated from The Life Coach School, I’m going to be there. I hope you’re going to be there too. Stop me, say hi, let me know, hey, I listen to your podcast. I look forward to seeing you guys if you will be in Austin next week.

And, you know, I will not be offended if you want to say, “Hey, happy birthday.” Because my birthday is that weekend. So not during the mastermind. Fun story, first day of the mastermind is my husband’s 50th birthday. So yeah, there’s a whole lot of, let’s just say that I’m currently possibly booking us a trip to the Caribbean and staying in a Ritz Carlton to make up for it.

Hey, you got to do what you got to do. My birthday will be that Sunday, I will be home by my birthday, April 10th. Not that I’m telling you exactly when my birthday is so you can send me gifts. But, you know, I’m just saying. I’m an Aries. Aries love attention. But like, unless we don’t want it and then you will find us in our rooms hiding for three days straight. That’s how we roll.

So it’s Aries season, it’s birthday season. And we have officially kicked off Free To Paid Coach, the brand new program. I’m so excited about this for so many reasons. I’ve been talking about it for the past couple of weeks. This episode, you’re going to get a deep dive into some new concepts and new ideas that I’ve injected into Amy Latta Coaching.

So not only do you get this in Free To Paid Coach, but you also get this in the mastermind. Which it’s like low key been announced, but that Confident Coaches Mastermind is no longer, like that has come to a close and we’re officially shifting into Path To 100K Mastermind.

You’re going to find out so much more about that, but it just made sense because now there’s two programs. And you’re going to know exactly where you should be. Are you in a Free To Paid Coach? Or are you ready to go into Path to 100K?

But both of them are going to be talking about today’s subject, which is did y’all know it’s the patriarchy keeping from getting you paid? Yep, it is. But not just, like I want to make sure that in this episode you understand we’re just not like, let’s smash the patriarchy and like marching with pitchforks and stuff. There’s real information here that’s super helpful for you to understand what’s going on in your head.

So one of the things that I keep saying over the past week, I don’t think I ever actually said this in five straight episodes of talking about Free To Paid Coach. But it wasn’t until launch week and we got people in, today is our second call. I waited to record this until our first call, and already like 22 beautiful human souls showed up. We coached, we coached through four different topics. Everybody was relating to it.

And it really was last week, so after I had recorded the previous five episodes where I realized Free To Paid Coach gives you two things. It gives you exactly what you tell me you want. I’m going to tell you exactly what to do.

I take out all of the guesswork. You’re going to know exactly what you should be posting, when you should be posting, how to post it, how to run a consult call, how to get in the head space of a consult call. Like literally do this, this, and this, and that’s what’s going to go sign consults.

But the name of this episode is the patriarchy is going to keep you from getting paid. None of that matters if you are not also learning how to handle the bullshit, the emotions, the shame storm, that stress cycle that you enter into when you start taking all of the actions that I’m going to tell you to do.

The bottom line is the patriarchy is what’s preventing you from taking the actions I tell you to do so that you can go get paid. That is the undercurrent of both programs, is helping you spot this line of thinking. And here’s the backstory on this and why this is not just a bunch of rhetoric, but this is firsthand experience on my part.

Literally for years my coach, my coaches, have coached me through inadequacy, and worrying about what other people think of me, and am I good enough. And from 20 different directions, every single coach got me back to the same place, me worrying about what other people think of me. Me worrying about whether or not I belong in the room.

And there comes a point where you get coached on the same damn thing over and over and over again, and you’re like, “Why can I breach this ledge? Why is this the ledge I consistently come back to?” Like everybody was bored about it. I was bored of it.

In fact, in the August meeting with my mastermind, my coach looked me in the eye and said we’re done with this conversation. We aren’t doing this anymore. Every time I coach you, it’s just different versions of the same shit. And this is my version of what she said. This was last August and I’m recording this in March, so I might not quite have the exact details of what she said.

But long story short, we’re done with this conversation. We keep coming back to this same place and you have to figure out what’s preventing you from just dropping this. I don’t know if I fit in. I don’t know if I belong. I worry about people getting upset with me.

And I did some really, really deep soul searching. I did some really tough self-coaching. I got some really good coaching from my one on one coach that I was working with at the time. And realized that under the surface, I felt like I was in danger. I was in danger if I spoke up. I was in danger if people didn’t like me. I was in danger if I said something controversial that other people wouldn’t like.

I was able to see where that danger came from. I was able to trace that back to moments in my childhood when I remember like speaking up and rocking boats literally got me in trouble, literally got me slapped across the face or screamed at. I had to realize, “Oh, I see that.”

As I really just held myself in so much compassion I was able to honor that pain of that little girl. But then not just be like, “So people were bad to me.” No, but what made those people say rocking the boats wasn’t okay? What made those people say, like what made the people that told me you can’t rock boats, what made them decide they couldn’t rock boats? Or that I shouldn’t rock boats?

Do you know what I mean? It was like this idea of I kept coming back to my base Helga struggles. But where did Helga come up with these ideas in the first place? This was the question I kept coming back to. Where is our Helga brain getting the idea that it’s not okay to be a life coach without a certification? That it’s not okay to run a business without a business degree? That it’s not okay to drop the F bomb in the middle of a podcast? Fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck, fuck.

Where did those ideas come from, right? I understand what my fears are. I’m well versed with my fears, we bathe together all of the time. We’re swimming in the pool and drinking cocktails. I know my fears very, very well. But where did they originate?

So I’m trying to figure that out over here. It’s not even so much that I was trying to figure out, as much as I just had this awareness that there was something beneath the existence of these fears. Right now you have a whole host of things that you are afraid of. You’re probably very well versed in them. If you are not working with me, you’re probably running away from them.

When you work with me you learn how to confront them, face them, while learning how to create self-safety. We’re going to be talking a lot about self-safety and a lot about your nervous system in the podcast from this point forward also. So you know your fears very well, but we rarely question like, where is that coming from? Right? Like what is below the surface from that?

So I had this understanding that all of my fears were here, but not understanding why I had them in the first place other than they just seemed to be common things that I hear all of the time. Cut to watching a shit ton of Netflix, and HBO, and Stars, and Peacock and all of the streaming services. hat in the past couple of years, I have watched all of The Last Kingdom. Hey, hey, Last Kingdom season five just dropped a couple weeks ago, did you watch it?

The last kingdom, which is historical fiction from the late 800s, early 900s. So we’re talking like before England was formed, it’s actually the story of how England was formed. The Last Kingdom as a TV show is actually the fictionalized version of how England was formed.

The Vikings TV series, which takes place during a similar timeframe, I’ve seen, you know, Discovery of Witches, I watch Outlander. My husband and I watched Yellowstone, we’ve watched Succession. I’ve been watching the Gilded Age on HBO. So all of the shows from across time.

So over here, I’m doing this coaching about where the hell do all these fears come from? Why do I keep landing on them? What’s preventing me from just drop kicking them to the side because I understand why they’re there, I understand that it feels dangerous to let them go. And then over here, I’m consuming all of these shows. And here’s the thing, oh, and throw in Ozark too. Let’s just throw it all in.

I’m watching this and I wish I could remember what episode of what I was watching. I don’t remember which TV show in particular, I don’t really even remember the setting. When all of the sudden I went, “Ah, oh my God, whether it’s 800, whether it’s modern day or anywhere in between, the theme of all of these shows is that there are people at the top and they will do fucking anything to keep everybody else out of the top. They will do anything to keep the top spot.

And anything less than the top is considered not worth anything. And trying to go against in battle with those in the top, trying to take on those people in the top was literally dangerous. If you watch Outlander, remember the episode where Claire is literally tried as a witch because she told the priest that the person wasn’t possessed by the devil, but that they just had this disease that she, as a modern day woman in ancient times, understood.

Like literally, the theme of all of these shows across the board, across history was patriarchy trying to hold on to power and literally murdering people who went against them. No wonder we’re always so fucking terrified. I want you to think about this.

Now, I understand I’m talking historical fiction. But it’s historical, it’s based on the mores, and the habits, and the thinking of those times, right? It’s kind of like based on a true story. We’ve done a lot to play around, you know, we’ve really fictionalized this up. But these people could have been found back in the day, right? These people exist.

So I want you to think about your grandmother’s grandmother’s grandmother, who lived in a village, who was told your role is as caretaker of children and nothing more. Who desired to do something different, who dared to speak up against the typically white Christian males that were in power. That their lives, they were literally told they were a witch. They were called witches. They were beaten into submission.

And they have passed down that generational trauma through the DNA into us today. And even though we no longer literally publicly hang people, aren’t those scenes in TV shows wild when the rest of the village is cheering on for the person to be hanged? Those scenes always baffle me. I’m like, “That could be you.” Right?

Even though we no longer literally do that, we still have so many of those same rules and regulations. This is what’s okay, and this isn’t what’s okay. Your need to comply, your need to fit in, your need to not rock the boat.

And even though our literal safety, for the most part, particularly if you’re just a life coach trying to make offers, your life is not on the line. You are triggering those are old deeply rooted things that we have seen in TV shows, that we’ve heard in song, that we’ve watched in movies, that some of us have seen in the news.

There are still people who do have their life on the line for rocking boats and speaking out. Of course that fear is ingrained in us. So I want you to think about you doing the work of becoming a paid coach. And I’m going to give you, I give you literally exactly what to do inside Free To Paid Coach. And I’m going to tell you do this, say this, say it this way. You know, try it again, look at it from this perspective, do this.

I’m going to give you exactly what to do, but none of that fucking matters. If you were terrified on a cellular level that you don’t even understand to actually go do that thing. This is why we have to talk about how the patriarchy is preventing you from getting paid.

So here’s the good news. Now that I’ve just said that we’re all fucked here’s the good news, you can learn to spot the patriarchy in your thinking. You can learn. I include a video module and a section in the workbook of how to start identifying the patriarchy.

Now we do more of this work in an in-depth fashion in the mastermind, but we are doing this in Free To Paid Coach as well. And you will hear me coaching you and coaching your peers in the coaching calls through this work. Because the bottom line is that in order to build a robust, enjoyable and fun, fun, do you remember when things used to be fun? Fun life coaching business, you’re going to have to rock boats, right?

Rocking boats is what’s going to help you stand out, it’s what’s going to draw your people in. Rocking boats means you don’t have to go seek them out, they’re going to find you, right? But then over here we have like, the patriarchy is very simple. People in power want to stay in power. These people have typically been white Christian men.

And I want to be really clear, this doesn’t make this episode or literally any of the coaching, man against women. This isn’t white Christian men versus the world, because this line of thinking hurts men equally as it hurts women. It tells men that their value is only in the hustling and the providing for the family, right?

And we’ve seen this in men who really struggle with the thoughts about like, I am the provider. I’m supposed to be the provider. If anything happens where I’m not the provider, the value of myself as a human being is on the line. Right? Patriarchal thinking hurts men as well as hurting women.

So we’ve got these people over here who want to stay in power and they don’t want people rocking boats. They don’t want women rocking boats, they don’t want men rocking boats, they don’t want anybody rocking boats. And over here, you have to if you’re going to become a confident paid coach because there are so many equally fabulous and talented coaches out there.

So if you want to be able to get paid as a coach, you need to be able to tell your audience, this is why you want to hire me. There are people who will never hire me because I say fuck on this podcast. And I love them so much. That maybe I’m just not their flavor. Totally okay. I don’t know that you’re going to get this much awesome from anywhere else. But hey, that’s okay, it’s not the kind of awesome you want to work with, right? It’s totally fine.

But you need to be able to say, “This is who I am. This is how I help you. And this is what sets me apart from all the equally fabulous people.” This is a coaching question we do inside the mastermind frequently. Everybody in the room is selling to the exact same audience. And then we go around, you tell me right now why should somebody hire you versus somebody else?

You need to be able to know this and you need to be able to share that with the world. Which is fucking terrifying if you think your life is in danger. Which is what Helga is telling you, right? This is where Helga, this is where all of her fear comes from. This is why she wants you to stay in the cave. It’s old patriarchal structures, hierarchical thinking.

But when we can learn to find it, when we can learn to identify it, then it becomes, “Oh, this is one of those patriarchy things.” When we say it’s one of those patriarchy things, it’s a rule. Now I’ve talked about there are no rules multiple times on the podcast.

Remember how I said there are no rules and I said it’s just something, somebody, somewhere decided was a rule and we all agreed to it? The something, somebody, somewhere, that’s the patriarchy. That’s the male dominated society that we’ve been in for literally the past couple thousands of years. That’s all it is, it’s just a couple millennia of thinking. That’s all it is. Like, no wonder it’s so hard to drop, right?

So what we’re talking about is patriarchal thinking. We are talking about the rules and expectations set up. Literally some of it is millennia years old. I’m literally watching The Last Kingdom, which takes place in 900. And I’m like, “Hey, this is some of the same bullshit I hear people talking about right now. It looks a little bit different, but it’s the same rule. It’s the same set of expectations.”

So if you can learn to spot that, if you can learn, “Oh, where is this fear I have coming from?” I’m getting ready to share with you four ways patriarchy shows up in your thinking so that you can just start paying attention to it, okay? Then you can identify it easier and then you get to decide what you want to do with that.

Do you want to agree with it? Do you want to disagree with it? If you disagree with it, how can you then, and we’re not going to get into this in this episode, but how can you then create safety for yourself? Because disagreeing with the patriarchy got our ancestors murdered.

And to be quite honest, this is not going to happen nine times out of 10, like 9.9999 times out of 10 in your life coaching business. But we do still see examples of this, unfortunately, so much on the news right now.

So even though making an offer, like going to tell your client, “Hey, I can help you stop over drinking,” is such a loving, genuine, honest thing that you can do. There are pieces of your brain going, “Danger. Danger. This is dangerous. You can’t say that. Who do you think you are? What’s your expertise? Only certain people are allowed to offer that kind of help. Are you one of those certain people? I don’t think you’re one of those certain people.” Okay?

So you want to learn how to not only identify it, but you also want to learn how to create safety for yourself so you don’t feel so in danger as you are looking the patriarchy in the face.

I teach you both things in Free To Paid Coach, and we really do a hell of a lot of it in the Path to 100K Mastermind. Because in the Path to 100K Mastermind, now we’re changing your identity. Now we’re changing how you think as a person. In both places we’re creating the, in one we’re creating the brain of a paid coach. In Path to 100K, we’re creating the brain of a six-figure coach.

And so that’s going to butt up against way more rules than just becoming a paid coach does. So this is work that you learn in Free To Paid Coach and we just build on and get better at it in Path to 100K Mastermind.

So here are the four ways that I want you to just start paying attention to how the patriarchy typically shows up. It’s literally four ways, it’s not exhaustive, clearly. This is also, we’re not talking about intersectionality. Okay? We’re not talking about, like this is just general patriarchy over everybody. We’re not talking about that person that has multiple marginalized groups together, right?

This is a podcast coming to you from a white woman. So I’m not also, when we’re talking about intersectionality we’re talking about maybe being a woman, we are talking about class. So we’re talking about your sex, we are talking about your class, we might be talking about your religion, we might be talking about your race, we might be talking about your ableism, we might be talking about your size, your physical size.

So none of this conversation is talking about the intersectionality or the possibility that you might fall into multiple marginalized groups. And the greater impact that patriarchal thinking even more has on you than say me, who is an able-bodied, non-practicing Christian woman who is financially totally fine. And I’m able-bodied, and I’m healthy, and all of those things, right?

I really just have the one thing, which really sucks that we’re the majority of the population. I really just have the one thing, the fact that I’m a woman, right? So let’s be really, really clear that as I’m having this conversation you can go way deeper. We are just scratching the surface of how the patriarchy is standing in your way of you really showing up powerfully in the world. Okay?

So patriarchal thinking typically shows up as the first one, only the chosen few can be at the top. And the only place of value is the top. Like anything less than 100 might as well be zero. I also know that when I was making these connections, I happened to be listening to Will Smith’s autobiography.

And there’s literally a thing about that where he talks about Daddio, like if it’s not 100, it might as well be zero. This is that kind of thing. Of like the only place of value is the top. So if it’s not 100, it might as well be zero, that’s backing up the only place of value is number one. But the patriarchal thinking also adds that very few people can be at the top.

It’s not a nice wide plateau on the top of that mountain, it’s a peak. Not a lot of room up there. So if you aren’t number one, this is where perfectionism comes into play, right? Anything less than 100 isn’t acceptable, because the only place of value is the top. And if somebody else is at the top, that means they’ve taken your spot.

This is where competition comes from. This is where comparison comes from. This is where you see your peer succeed at a level you haven’t financially. This is where you see them getting paid. This is where you see them making their first 10,000, 50,000, $100,000 and you think their success means your failure. This is where this comes from right here.

It’s the idea that only a few people can hold the top spot. And then the only place of value is the top spot. Failure is not an option. How many times have we heard failure is not an option? All the fucking time. It’s on motivational posters.

All right, so the second one, only the chosen few can proclaim what is and is not okay to think, say, or do. And thinking outside these boxes is dangerous. And here’s the real kicker, this is that like riot mentality, everyone is in danger if we don’t all comply.

So this is along the lines of you are not allowed to make these bold claims. It’s not okay. It’s not okay for you to get on a podcast, Amy, and say fuck a lot. It’s not okay for you, who has a degree in business and marketing, to be telling people that you can help them change how they think about themselves.

Now, we will rarely face the danger of thinking outside of boxes. But the danger that we face now, like in terms of like literal physical harm danger. But the danger we face now, are the haters on Facebook. Right? These are the people coming online and telling us that we’re not just dumb and stupid, but they’re calling us dumb stupid bitch.

Yeah, it’s totally happened. These are the people who come on and tell us what you’re saying is wrong, what you’re doing is dangerous. Who are disagreeing with us and not just even disagreeing with us, but like disagreeing in a very aggressive manner, right? I know you know what we’re talking about, what you would call a hater. Like who are you to say this? What’s your experience? That’s patriarchal thinking right there.

All right, so the third way that patriarchal thinking typically shows up is only a few can help others because they have all the ideas. Making the claim that you too can help is operating out of your station. So this is a little bit different than only a few can proclaim what is and is not okay to say, think, or do. This is only if you can actually help people, because they’re the only ones with new ideas.

So the first one is more about who gets to share the ideas. And this one’s more about who gets to have them in the first place. Because that’s not your station. Like I’m thinking about that scene in Outlander where the only person who was allowed to help others was the priest, when really what the so called possessed person, I think it was a kid. Yeah, it was a kid.

The kid needed a doctor, but in that day and time, as a female, I can’t remember what they called them. They called them a healer in that show, I think they called them a healer in that show. As a female healer in the 1700s, that was operating out of her station. She wasn’t allowed to help other people. She wasn’t allowed to have the ideas. And she was subsequently almost, they tried to burn her at the stake. So there’s an instance right?

All right, the fourth way, you have a role in life and your value comes from performing that role. So that’s also a little bit similar, but just a little bit different. This is where I’m talking about, you know, you are a woman and your value is as a mom. So how many moms feel mom guilt when they’re trying to work on their life coaching business? Because your value is in being a mom and not in being a business owner, so says millennia of thinking, right?

This is also what hurts men. In my own family we experienced this when my husband lost his job in 2020 and he was out of work for a couple of months. And he has no problem with me being successful, and I was completely able to take care of the family on just the income that I make. You know, we were never financially in danger. But his identity was shattered and that was such a struggle for him. That was the effect of patriarchal thinking on him.

So the idea that you have a role in life and your value comes from only performing in that role, if you’re trying to become a paid coach and you’re trying to make a living as a life coach, does that go against the station that you’ve been given? Unless you already an entrepreneur who also happens to have a psychology degree and all of these things, then most people are going to see us as operating out of our station.

So first, it just really starts with understanding where the patriarchy is at play here. And that it is at play here. And that your people pleasing, your attempt to measure your value by achievement, your censoring, kind of watering down how powerfully you speak, where you think you are allowed to spend time and spend money when you’re not. All of that can be traced back to one of these four things. The rules that were set, what is and is not okay, and how your safety might be on the line if you don’t adhere.

This is totally killing your confidence and convincing you that you do not have what it takes. And it’s just simply all a lie. So your work is to start identifying how that patriarchy is showing up in your thinking. And this is 100% what we’re doing inside Free To Paid Coach and Path To 100K Mastermind. So obviously, we’d love to have you in there so that you don’t have to do this on your own.

Listen, spotting the patriarchy in your own brain is really, really hard. Because it’s not just, “Oh, here’s some beliefs I keep indulging in.” These have roots. These beliefs that you have that are preventing you from really showing up powerfully, they have deep, deep roots. I want to be really clear, I made multiple six figures before I found the deep roots. Okay? You can absolutely become a paid coach and not spot one ounce of patriarchy in your brain, okay?

What I want to offer to you is how much farther faster you’re going to get when you do. I think about coaches who are coming into the coaching field now, with all of us who have gone before you, having learned all of this stuff over the course of years. This year marks my 10th year as a coach but I just started doing this work this past year.

And I want to offer this to you, I am currently in a certification program called Advanced Certification in Feminist Coaching. I’ve just begun to scratch the surface. I’ve barely scratched the surface here, I’m going to be going so much deeper into this coaching and I can’t wait to see how it affects the coaching that we do in Free To Paid Coach and Path to 100K.

I was even thinking about, it’s one of the funny things, patriarchal thinking, I don’t have all of the knowledge so I shouldn’t share all of it yet. Because who am I to share things? I’m already operating out of my station. I’m already talking about shit I don’t 100% know about, right? I really wanted to completely finish the certification and made sure I was 100% okay before I shared any of this.

And I was like, no, I need to share what I already understand with the knowledge that as I go further through this program, and as I coach more people through this, I’m sure that we will revisit the subject so that we can really understand, so I can help you understand.

As I understand more I can help you understand. We’ll be talking more about diversity and intersectionality and how that’s affecting how you are showing up in your life coaching business. What’s really important is it’s showing up and your ability to get paid. All right?

So that’s what I wanted to make sure that you understood today, the patriarchy is what’s keeping you from getting paid. And also this does not have to be a problem.

One last thing before we move on, this isn’t in my notes at all, but it just came to me. I do think it’s important that this isn’t a victim conversation. This isn’t a, “Oh, woe is me. It’s the patriarchy all along. There’s nothing I can do.” This isn’t a conversation, to create helplessness. It’s a conversation to create awareness of where your fear and doubt is coming from. So then you can choose to decide what to do about it from a more empowered place, as opposed to a defenseless place.

And I really want you to see like, it’s not, “Oh, it’s the patriarchy and there’s nothing I can do about it and I’m a victim.” It’s, “Oh, it was the patriarchy all along. That is totally an optional thought. Now I get to decide what to do about it and I’m going to learn how to create safety for myself. So I can do that from a place that doesn’t feel so fearful.”

All right, my friends. Look for me on the socials. Look for the Instagram post for this podcast episode. Look for the Facebook post for this podcast episode. And share with me what new thing you just learned today. I can’t wait to hear what nugget had you never considered before? Even better, if you want to share that post or screenshot this podcast and share it into your Instagram stories and tag me @IamAmyLatta. Because this is some new content that I didn’t know about it, friends. I didn’t know about it.

Now that I know I can’t unknow. And we are not going to allow the patriarchy from getting us paid anymore. All right, until next week, let’s get paid coach.

Coaching is what you’re meant to do and this dream ain’t going away. But being new or not knowing what to do is terrifying. Societal rules have told you what is and is not okay, and there’s a whole lot about running your own business that goes against that. Wouldn’t it be great if there was one place that told you what to do today and how to stop feeling so stressed about what you’re doing today?

There is, it’s called Free To Paid Coach. In Free To Paid Coach you’ll learn the two things you need to become a paid coach. You’re going to know the actions that actually sign clients and know how to handle the emotions that stop you from taking the actions that sign clients.

With Free To Paid Coach you’re going to know how to get paid as a coach, which means you’re going to know how to make a living as a coach. So join Free To Paid Coach today. Go to amylatta.com/FTPC. That’s amylatta.com/FTPC. See you inside Free To Paid Coach. Let’s get paid, coach.

Thanks so much for listening to The Confident Coaches Podcast. I invite you to learn more. Come visit me at amylatta.com and until next week, let’s go do epic stuff.