Ep #203: The Prosperous Coach & starting conversations

When someone says “oh, you just HAVE to read this book…” I always wonder…but do I?

This week, a few members of the Play More Sell More free group have our first ever Book Club – where Opinions are WELCOME.

No longer are we gonna assume all books are amazing, and actually get into the meet of these books and see if they hold up, if they’re full of helpful info, or harmful info, or…as I suspect….a lil’ of both.

In this episode, we discuss The Prosperous Coach, one of the first books recommended to me when I started my coaching business.

Can’t wait to see what YOUR opinion is!

Join us for September’s book club inside Play More Sell More:
September 27, 2023 @ 12pm CDT
We Should All Be Millionaires
by Rachel Rodgers.

The doors to Free to Paid Coach are officially open! If you’re ready to learn the foundational concepts of confidence that get you from being a free coach to a paid coach who makes six figures and beyond, join us right now!

What You’ll Learn:
  • How to redefine success in your coaching practice, one existential crisis at a time
  • How to acknowledge prosperity and success in your coaching practice
  • Why “The Prosperous Coach” might give you reading whiplash
  • The power of Facebook Live and Periscope, aside from streaming your cat’s shenanigans
Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:
Full Episode Transcript:

You are listening to episode 203 of The Confident Coaches Podcast, the one where we’re going to do something we’ve never done before. Let’s go.

Welcome to The Confident Coaches Podcast, a place for creating the self-confidence you need to do your best work as a life coach. If you want to bring more boldness, more resilience, and more joy to your work, this is the place for you.

I’m your host. Amy Latta. Let’s dive in.

Okay. Hey coach, this is not going to be an incredibly long introduction and there won’t be a follow up after this because I am sharing something with you today that we’ve not done on the podcast before, so. We have a book club. I have a book club. Did you know I have a book club? It’s brand new. It’s inside the free Facebook group, Play More, Sell More.

And August was our first book and we talked about the Prosperous Coach. We’re going to dive in, in just a few moments. And the whole idea around the book club, which is called Opinions Welcome. Because I actually want conversation. All of these books that people say we should love, and we should listen to, and, oh my god, haven’t you read?

Oh my god, it’s the best. And is it the best? I mean, do you love it? Do they hold up? The Prosperous Coaches from 2013, did this baby hold up? You’re about to find out what we think. Maybe a little bit, maybe not so much, maybe somewhere in between. Maybe some shit I didn’t really like. Maybe some other stuff that people never even noticed.

So, this is a conversation about a book that is recommended to almost every coach and whether or not it’s filled with stuff is helpful, hurtful, harmful, and. What we can glean and learn about that. So, listen in to this episode as a few of the Play More Sell More members join me. This is a live podcast, so enjoy it.

And if you want to join us for the next one, guess what? It’s tomorrow. So, Wednesday, September 27th at 12 PM noon. In Play More Sell More, we are doing a podcast for Rachel Rogers book, We Should All Be Millionaires. Have you read it? Have you not read it? Does it sound intriguing? Join us inside the free group.

And I can’t wait to hear what your opinion is. Hello. Hello, my friends. Okay. Super fun. My Air Pods have gone rogue and missing. Not fun. So, this is the Opinions Welcome Book Club for the Prosperous Coach. So right now, I am adding this to the Facebook group. Join here so that people can watch it. We are sharing it so if you give me just a moment as I share it into the page as people are coming in.

All right, there we go. So hello, my friends, how’s everybody doing, Ken looks like it’s just going to be me.

People will come. People will come. I’m not worried. By the way, it’s great to meet you. I know that I’ve seen your name pop in and out. I’ve seen your comment on stuff. It’s always great to meet a somebody who’s, yeah, I know even if I don’t know you. Yes. Oh, here, here’s somebody. Debbie’s coming. I’ve been following you for a while and it’s great to be here.

Absolutely. So, we’re just going to go ahead and dive in with the understanding that like, lots of people said they were coming. Yeah, it’s going to be broadcast. This is being broadcast into the play more, sell more groups. So, people might be in there. They’ve got the link via email and in the group as well.

So, we’re just going to go ahead and get started. If it’s the two, three of us, but ends up being 20 of us. Fabulous. Because this is still the conversation. Yeah, this is like my dog eared. Yeah. What else do you have there? Oh, oh, she’s got hers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, this is a notebook. That’s all. Okay. Okay. I also did, so like right out of the gate, I didn’t check.

Where this book was available, and I bought it on audible years ago. So, when I go on audible, it’s solid. Yeah, it’s on audible, but it wasn’t until somebody said, I can’t find it. And I did not log in. It’s no longer audible. However, this is a caveat. Anybody that’s watching this even as a replay, I can’t implore you enough that there’s a gazillion business books and there’s no reason for you to spend all of your dollars on them.

Get a library card, and the audio book. If you don’t like you can go rent this at the library and the audio book for this is on the hoopla app so get a library card download the Libby app, download the hoopla app, and if you like TVs and movies, TV shows and movies, download the canopy app, and you can watch all that read and watch all that stuff for free.

Otherwise, I agree, we did this. I think if you want to buy this book it’s like 40 to buy this book, which. I don’t know. I’m not sure it’s worth the 40. So, um, the book club aspect of this is informal. Number one. Number two, I’ve been in a book club for 15 years. I’ll be it. It’s a fiction book club and we’re usually drinking like I might.

Hey, let me think like a business book club versus like a, what’s the latest Jodi Picoult book. This is informal. We’re not taking turns necessarily and I think the best way to go about this is like first impressions. What pieces do or are helpful? What, what, what is information? They’re like, you know what?

I’m going to use that nugget. And also, what feels like giant red flag or like, Ooh, whoa, hey, uh, this book is 10 years old. Like this is, you know, it’s been around for a really, really long time and there might be things in here that weren’t good 10 years ago or that sounded good 10 years ago and sound terrible now.

So, I’ll just start right out of the gate and the best thing that I can say is upon re listening to this this month, I felt like I was getting whiplash. of like, yeah, that was really, oh God, no, no, no, no, no, don’t do that, don’t do that. Oh, that’s a good, like I felt like, and sometimes within like the first five minutes, I almost felt like this sentence was amazing.

And then this sentence, I was like, oh no, don’t do that. Like, so to me, this is chock full of. Everything under the sun that we should and should not be doing. So, I would love to hear from Ken. I know you obviously have some thoughts and feelings. I’d love to hear what you have to say. I wonder if your whiplash is due to some of the inconsistencies in the book.

Now, I read it two to three years ago and I was just trying to hoopla it, you know, and I got through a third, but one of those inconsistencies is what makes a coach and in one part of the book, it says. that you’re not a coach unless you’re a paid coach. And then another part of the book, it says here are three ways you can coach.

One of the styles was self-empowerment and that is just, you’re coaching for yourself. It’s part of your self-improvement program. And those are like polar opposite opinions. So that is that some of the whiplash you’re looking at exactly some of the whiplash so yeah so to Ken’s point number one, they stayed out really early that you can’t call yourself a coach unless you are generating revenue from coaching, which I have a problem with like, what is a brand new coach.

Who literally is setting up their business for the first time, who’s trained, who has the tools, they haven’t created revenue yet. Like, there’s still a business owner, a person, anybody who is opening their doors for business wouldn’t not. Call themselves a business owner until the 1st, now that 1st paying customer, this is where you see, like, the, the 1-dollar bill, like, I don’t I’m talking like, old school, like, 1980s, you’d see that dollar.

Framed on the wall, you know, like that first dollar is monumental, but like an average business owner wouldn’t be like, no, I don’t own my own business when they are investing in, you know, they’re remodeling a shop down the street to open their own business. But to Ken’s point, one of their business models was empowerment coach, where you have another job and you’re just bringing coaching to a lot of inconsistencies.

And just to whiplash back the other way, later in the book, they said, well, you can get paid in experiences. So it was, first of all, you can only be paid. If you’re a paid coach, you’re a real coach. Then you can be a self-empowerment coach, but then it was also, you can be paid in experiences, which to me means you don’t have to be a paid coach, right, to coach.

And so, I guess with any book, you just take some things and leave some things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So right out of the gate, one of the things and I have a couple of like I was starting to take notes and then after a while I was like, I’m going to write a 300-page whiplash consensus if I keep this up so like right out of the gate.

I do not love that they normalize spending our very last dollar. In on believing in someone else and their methods, like they’re really advocating for you to spend all your money for your own coaching and not that I’m against coaches, hiring coaches. I obviously, like, that’s the thing that some people need, but also if we aren’t creating an income, which this book is supposedly about that at some point, what’s that investment level.

What’s that what’s that threshold of investment level that’s considered a good investment versus investing past the point of return, and they don’t they don’t they don’t do a great job of. Addressing that in this book, or just like you should be spending a lot of money on coaching, or you can’t call yourself a good coach like, okay, but you know, there’s nuance there, which side note, I have a person.

And before I name this person, I want to make sure that they’re on board. I have a person that I think can speak to that really, really well that I want to invite on the podcast about what is reasonable expenditure. To get a life coaching business up and off the ground because that conversation is not being had.

So not only do I not love normalized spending your very last dollar, but it was also a great investment because I made all my money back and more in two months. And I’m like, all right, white male privilege. I do, if I can just add, I think it’s a little, I think what you’re getting to be that their opinions are very like, you have to do this.

And this is what worked for us, and it worked for you, but you have to do it in this way. It’s very black and white. One example that I love to hear from, and the reason I’m here is because I’m, I’m having difficulty with my business and trying to grow it and that’s why I’ve been following you, Amy.

I’d love to hear what people think about, like only have conversations. You’re going to get all your business through referrals. I’ve gone through my list twice. And the people I coach. I think I’ve gently said, if you have a referral, let me know, but I’m not going to keep going back to that.

Well, they’re going to give me a referral when they feel good about me, it’s not even about my coaching. They just might not be focused on that. So, I just love to hear, I do think that’s probably black and white. No marketing. I don’t believe that, but I just wanted to have that kind of conversation. I love that.

Um, I think it’s both and I think it’s, he holds beautiful space for the power of conversation. And when he says, you know, no sale is made outside a powerful conversation, I believe that. And we buy programs all the time where we’re just so in tune with whatever they’re selling that even without that one-on-one call we might buy the coaching or whatever.

The fact that he even says pay in check was assigned to me that I’m like, oh, this is dated. This is like when’s the last time you’ve written a check for anything except maybe the person hands you a check. Yeah. Yeah. Hands you a check. Um, that’s the part where I’m like, checks are in my life. Yeah. More in the house, but yes, 100%.

I think the last time I wrote one was for a wedding gift, just because I couldn’t get to the bank in time. So, I just, it was the easier thing to do. So, yeah. Definitely, you know, holding space for the power of conversation, what can happen in a powerful con conversation, which is the transformative act and also recognizing the power of good marketing and where that plays a role and him.

Again, maybe this is just the time of, you know, no Facebook, no Instagram, or maybe that it was just too often changing at the time, but we all know, like, I found Amy through her Instagram and just, yeah, like being able to hold space for both in 2023, which is the year that we’re kind of currently in. Right, right.

Yeah. And I found it interesting because You know, when I first read this book was probably 2015. So, I know for sure it was before I was certified, but I started my coaching business in 2013, and I was attending networking events, but not really like understanding like what I was opposed to do there. I was just like, I’m here like I wasn’t.

And so, this book was recommended to me. And so, I started having conversations, but I didn’t have that confidence in that chutzpah to like actively say, I can help you, which is how I ended up creating confidence coaching. Cause I had to figure out how to do that, but I thought it was really interesting that it was like, don’t be online, don’t email, don’t market, just have conversations, but don’t go to networking events and I’m like, Where are you having, like, who’s, who, who are they talking to, right?

So, they don’t really go into their, I don’t, I didn’t feel like Steve and Rich really have a good Are you going to Pampered Chef parties? Are these at Super Bowl parties? Yeah, I understood it as like really go through your list. So whether it’s your contact list on your phone and being able, and which is actually what I did in my first, you know, just after certification, because I was so scared to market because I’m like, I don’t want all these randoms that I have on my Facebook and Instagram to know what I’m doing.

I was insecure. So, I just. Um, and I picked out about 10 women that I was like, Yeah, you know what, you’d probably be open to it, or you and I have a good enough relationship where I can send you a message or an email. So yeah, I think what I understood from him was just like go through your personal contacts and make those connections or see who you can be referred to.

Yeah, I think this is where it’s networking, not necessarily networking groups but so like from. You know, if I come from a corporate background, me, which I did, me pulling up all that, that dust off that Filofax, I’m throwing out some 1990s words there, by the way, you know, dust off that Filofax and like, go back through who did I have good relations with 10 years ago that I might be able to say, Hey, I’ve started this.

And, you know, I’d love to set up a coffee with you and not necessarily see them as because I want you to hire me as a coach, but You know, a, who do, you know, you know, I, I did love the line and this is funny because I have been in multi-level marketing groups too, and they don’t not say the same thing. So, there’s kind of like, I have this, it’s both good.

And I felt a twinge of like, you know, a lot of people who know a lot of people. And the first thing I did when I signed up for pampered chef was write a list of a hundred people, you know, and go find out who they know. So, there was a little bit of a, but also, okay. If you’re not looking at that list as a, this is where my money is going to come from, but more truly as a connections-based conversation.

And this is where I think, you know, submarine you and I talked earlier this week about this book of like, we really have to, when we read any book we really have to bring our own discernment of like what they’re saying, and what that’s actually going to look like. For us in reality that feels really, I think this is like, what’s that energy that we want to feel here, right?

Like a connection, like, we’re not looking for anything out of these people who are having conversations. But we know that it’s the conversation and our willingness to ask questions that. You know, maybe that will lead to who do they know, and they go you want to know what I do have a friend that was just talking about their struggle with their teenage daughter, so you know I’ll send you that.

But yeah, there’s that, that nuance between go talk to everybody you know. Which is right out of the MLM handbook versus the, not because you want them to have a party so you can sell your pampered chef wares, but because you genuinely want people to know I have a new business and I’m really excited about it and your connection that I trust and.

You know, who, who do you know, you know, do you have any advice for me? You know that kind of thing. I just counted the number of sentences about connection. It’s four sentences. I can even read it really quickly. That’s it only connects. Ask yourself who I’d love to speak to and then call them. That’s it. When I think really.

I love that you see that because I didn’t, I didn’t pick that up because that’s really what I, when I think about the positive vibe I get from this book, it’s that right there is make connections. The fact that it’s this much of that book is a little disconcerting.

I think to your point, it comes to like, how do you. Deal with those connections and conversations is that you don’t treat people as a means to an end. And it comes from the deep belief work that you can and will eventually make the money and you believe in coaching and in the other person so powerfully that you’re like, no, like.

I will make the money like the money will come but I’m so just interested in you or just in coaching in general. That’s kind of where the shift is which I found really interesting that maybe being a male he oversaw the entire necessity for the emotional work, and the belief work by just saying, stick to the facts.

And there was definitely power in saying, okay, what is factual coaching changed my life. This is a powerful conversation. I have a new business. I’ve helped people transform their lives. But we know as people in the space and maybe we can say, particularly maybe as, as women in the space of like, there’s a lot of emotions that come with the work that we do.

And to just bypass that and say, stick to the facts. I didn’t appreciate that piece. Yeah. That’s interesting. I was stuck. I, I couldn’t think of the past when I came across the chapter, no emails. They, they have, there are hundreds of programs where they teach you how to write copy specifically for email. How are we supposed to reach out to people?

I mean, I know only two people in, you know, in my, in my circle. Like right now, we’re doing business globally. We’re not doing it locally anymore. It doesn’t work. And I just, that’s where I started having a little trust issue with the book. I don’t know. Like nowadays, we’re just reaching out to each other by email or text.

I don’t even call my mom. I texted her. So, picking up the phone and reaching out to people. I like side note, I was texting my mom and my sister for the whole 20 minutes leading up to this call. I don’t remember the last time I actually like called my mother, but we text every single day. So yes, I do understand.

Yeah. I think a little bit of that is. And by the way, I meant to say this at the beginning, and I didn’t. Apparently, which one? Rich? I can’t remember. The younger of the two. Put out a second one of this. where he amended a lot of what’s in here. Just found that out this week and I haven’t read it. I’m not sure what it’s called, but I did see somebody saying like, so for instance, the two-hour conversation, he now is like, no, we should be having 15-minute qualifying conversations before we go and give people two hours.

And so, I don’t, I’d be interested to know of his take on the, don’t email. I think I think what we can take from that is the emails are great and emails can sell. But also, if you can have a one on one, like maybe it’s about using those emails to start one on one conversations as opposed to blasting emails.

To, you know, a list, you know, a list of 100 people and hoping people buy straight from that. Like, when he says no email, I’m like, well, it’s 2023. We writing is how we’re communicate a lot more. And also. A lot of you, like, Nikki just said, she found me on Instagram, which maybe is an email, but that’s, you know, it’s written or.


So, I think again, Sam, I think they were talking about, like, what are they saying there? Obviously, I’m going to use email and written copy. As part of my sales and marketing and a way to start conversations, but to what can I extract is the word that’s coming to me what can I extract from what he’s really trying to say is.

Our business is going to be built on intimate conversations. Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I actually took from it. But you also got to look at it. It’s like written in 2013. Right. And just think about how fast technology has changed and changed everything that we’re doing. And then the pandemic even changed more with how we’re connecting with people and using zoom all the time.

And so, it’s, it kind of reminds me of back when. When my husband was way back in the 70s before there were cell phones, but yet somebody was talking about telling him to invest in these towers that we’re going to be having the cell phone wires and all that stuff. And he’s like, there’s no way who’s going to want to carry around a phone and talk on a phone all the time and have their phone with them 24 seven.

Like he was like, he’s not going to do it right and so it’s really opening ourselves up to that. And realizing that’s when this was written. So those kinds of pieces but then so for me the biggest takeaway I got. Was just having a process. So, the, the connection, the invite, the create and propose. So that for me, based on everything else I was being bombarded with at the time, for me simplified and slowed down the whole process.

So, then I could take what I wanted and ask like, okay, well, how does this help me connect? And how does this process I’m learning help me connect and create a relationship? And then how from this can I invite? And then I also, it also helped me to think of like, oh, and I’m creating clients because I’m deciding, do I want to work with them as well as do they actually want to work with me?

And then I’m going to be choosing, do I want to make the proposal? So, for me, just reading that particular part, that’s the biggest part I took away from it. And it helped me to like make things my own instead of trying to copy so much of everything else. Where was that? Cause that’s around. That’s one page in my book anyways I’m page 70.

I mean it goes into detail and whatever, but the picture helped me because, because listen I have ADHD like you Amy, and this picture and this thing here I’m like okay that’s it that’s enough for me I got that I’m going to focus on that. Yeah, ask myself, okay when with what I’m willing to get myself to do.

How can I do these things right here? Yes, I found them, and this is where I’m going to. This is where I’m going to own up to. I was trying, my brain was having a hard time grasping the create and what they were like, I, I got the, I think it was the word choice. What am I missing here? Like I get the, nobody really, nobody cares about workbooks and member sites and how often we meet, right?

They care about, can you help me? So, when they say create, they’re talking about sharing that experience. Yeah. Like the coaching experience is going to be create for them ahead of time with the coaching experience is going to be. I took that, but I also took create a transformation for them too in that conversation because that’s really what you’re selling.

Yeah, yeah, transformation, right? It’s not like we have like a bar, you can go buy at a store or a drink, you can buy at the coffee counter, right? We’re really what we’re selling is some kind of a transformation. So, if within, yeah. The first conversation, you can create a little bit of some kind of transfer.

That’s how I took it. And I also started viewing the conversations all as these are little mini coaching sessions. And this is how I can practice my coaching. And so that could be what you’re talking about in there, right? This is the free, right? This is the free part that I’m doing. It’s honing the skills.

For me, just that picking all that part up, it helped me reframe everything that I was working towards trying to get myself to do, and then even as the mind work came in and all that kind of stuff, I would point myself back towards, okay, wait, but how can I turn this into one of these things? So that’s really how the book literally helped me.

And I just, I don’t know, maybe it’s just because how I read and what I take out of it, the rest of it, like I didn’t pick up on any of that money stuff you guys were talking about. And I didn’t really pick up on any of those things that you were talking about. I just took that part, and I was like, okay, this is what I’m going to use.

Yeah, and I do like there I do like that like what equals clients it’s the connection, call people start conversations, we, I say if email is going to help you, or written text is going to help you or network marketing or. Not network marketing, but networking and marketing. Let me be clear that I don’t, I’m separating.

That helps you start the conversations and then inviting people in, I think the one thing about the invite, I don’t know if I missed it. Or if they don’t say it, but when they’re talking about like, would you like help with that, I think it’s helpful, helpful that we let people know that this conversation could potentially lead to me offering you a paid it.

It’s not an obligation kind of like I call that kind of setting the agenda, without saying first we’re going to do this never going to do this but letting people know that like there might be, you know, if I think I can help you. You know, let me know if you’re interested in actually hearing how I can help you as part of that invitation.

That’s that part of like, I think at this point, we, this isn’t in this book at all, but it’s something that I’ve thought a lot about over the last 18 months, particularly as I went through feminist coaching certification around. We’re constantly, this point, we are constantly being sold to all of the time and people can be a little like, what do you want, right?

So, I think that’s where consent of like letting people know, I’m, I want to have conversations with you, but letting them know whether it be at the start of the conversation or somewhere in there where, you know, I, I think I could actually help you with this in a, a paid situation, but let me know if you want to go down that alleyway.

Like, there’s, I think there’s a way to inject some. Consent into those conversations where they, in other words, think they’re just having a conversation about how you’re helping them. And this is like a friend, a friend or a friend. And the next thing you know, you’re saying, and for, you know, for 2, 000, I can help you, you know, so like transition between having a conversation and the actual paid offer to help and let giving people their agency and their autonomy to be able to.

not feel like they now have to sit through the sales pitch part. I don’t know that that’s necessarily what they were saying, but I mean, in 2013, we also weren’t talking about consent when it comes to marketing and sales. So, and I’m not sure that I would have thought about that if I hadn’t gone through.

You know, a rigorous feminist perspective of like how, you know, women in particular tend to give up their consent in where things are going. So as part of the invitation part, and then, yeah, Debbie, when they said create, my brain got confused by what they meant, but now I was like, I think they mean Create that pre coach that that coaching experience before you offer coaching to them.

That’s how I, that’s how I took it. That’s how I took it. Yeah. I took it to when they say create. It’s really about. And the funny thing is, is that when I first went through coaching certification with the life coach school, how they taught selling coaching was through they called it many sessions may think when Jody Moore was doing the sales trainings.

Yeah. back in 2016. And that is how we were taught was you’re giving them a mini-20-minute coaching experience where you are giving them a little taste of what coaching is about. And then when you’re moving into the offer, it’s You know, where else does this show up? What other problems could be solved?


Do you see how if we were doing this work week in, week out, we could actually move that needle much farther? So that is like part of my original business training, which was not very fleshed out. I want to be really clear back in 2016. But part of that business training was that’s how we, that’s how it was very much create that experience as part of.

The sale and it eventually became something a little bit different, but we’re now, I think you can actually, because everything is becoming, like, if you do podcasts, I honestly believe that people feel like they get to know you, right? Because they carry that podcast with them everywhere. They take it on their walks, like, if they’re podcast listeners.

It’s in the car when they go to work, it’s on their walks, it’s in the gym when they work out. So, it’s almost like they are taking you everywhere, and depending on what the podcast is like, they’re getting an experience of hanging out with you. And so that really quickly builds up the know, like, and trust faster, you know, aspect of things.

I think, and so I think, and then, but I think we can also do that in, like, right now this is live, right? And I, you’re, you said you were streaming at other places too, right? It’s, instead of sending out a recording, it’s just, if anybody who’s in Play more, Sell more can see this video inside Play more, Sell more, yeah.

So, yeah. Right. Exactly. And they’re getting more, and they’re hearing more about you, and they’re hearing your perspective, and all of that kind of stuff. So, I think that. It makes it, it becomes easier for when they do connect with you, however, whether it is with your email and what you send them, how you’re marketing and having that call to action to join whatever it is you have, it’s easier for people to say yes, then in 2013 when this was done, all of these kinds of things weren’t there.

Right, like, you can do those lives, you know, and stream on YouTube that all the places at one time, people can have conversations with you right there when you’re on it, all of that stuff. So, they’re kind of getting an experience there then if you really look at the stuff like that. Yeah, that’s so good.

2015, January of 2015 is when Twitter launched something called Periscope. It was the first live. And they were the first ones. It was, and it’s really funny cause it doesn’t even exist anymore. And it was only available for 24 hours. So, you would go live on Periscope in it broadcast onto your Twitter account.

And people like, it looks like it does now in a live video, you see their comments popping up, but they’re talking with you, I would put my prop, my phone up with full scripts and notes off to the side. I usually, like I had small kids at home. So, I was usually like in gym clothes or certainly didn’t have any of this like dark room, you know, all of that.

And that’s how I got better at talking live. But that was 2015, two years after this book came out. So that wasn’t even a conceivable thing that we could do that. Then a year later, Facebook launched live. It was in and they made the experience better than obviously it’s now what it is now we’re talking on zoom and I’m broadcasting into a Facebook group from the yeah now it’s now it’s, you know, on steroids but that is also, and maybe that’s what the create part is create is how, what are all of the variety of ways we can create a way for people to get to know us better, like us, build that trust with us.

Right. Or say, no, this person’s not for me, whatever that is. Right. Or they can say, yeah, a heck yes to you or a heck no to you, quicker, faster, easier. Right. And so, I think that’s part of it too, is creating that for people. And so, if you can take, this is how I’m like simplifying it for myself, is taking what they said, that process, and really asking yourself, what is it I can do each day to do that?

So, so good. Right. And it’s, you know, where the rest of it, and I, and it makes sense. Right. Based on when it was written, why they might be all about, and you can’t sell any of this thing for this price without a conversation. Yeah, because they, none of this technology, this technology wasn’t there. And also, people weren’t as much paying these higher dollar amounts for those kinds of things.

Yeah, right for coaching and a lot of coaching wasn’t even heard of. And now we’re a lot of companies and corporations and even medicine here in West Palm Beach where I live, and they have a coach right in the process. And right in the clinic. So, there are a lot of those clinics coming about and they’re having wellness be the whole picture and they’re bringing in coaching in as part of that.

Which in 2013, none of that was happening. I don’t even know if this natural path practitioner was happening, but by the way, Ken, yeah, I know you didn’t know you’re getting in a conversation with Perry menopausal woman over here, but I just, a menopause doctor who actually knows something about menopause as opposed to the old ways of doing things.

And I found a, a practice that specializes in the latest research. That’s not all pellets and, you know, progesterone creams that is actually using like, you know, the science and the hormone replacement therapy, and they. They have coaching services. I noticed that they actually have a life coach on staff.

Yeah, here’s the psychiatrist that’s going to help you with, you know, cause, and this is how I found this because ADHD is becoming more diagnosed in perimenopausal women. Here’s the psychiatrist so that if you need, so that you can get diagnosed with anything, if you need to, here’s the doctor that is specializes in, you know, the OBGYN that specializes this, there’s a weight management person that can help you find the, you know, a registered dietitian who can help you find that.

And then here’s a life coach that can kind of help you like this practice. There’s one, it is about 20 minutes from my house. So, to, yeah, to your point. None of that was around 10 years ago. Exactly. And this is, and that’s exactly what this clinic is like. And it’s, and I live in West Palm Beach, and it’s the only one within like a 25-mile radius in West Palm Beach.

And I only found it because my girlfriend who lives in Ohio, Cincinnati. She has one. And I was like, I need one of those. I mean, I was tempted to fly to Ohio because I fly free because I’m retired airline, right, to just do it and just start flying to Ohio, stay in her house and do it there. But luckily, I found the one here so now I’m going to go check that out next week.

But yeah, so really thinking about all that none of that was there. Yeah, I, and I have found an expert to come on the podcast to help about like how to get work as a contract coach, but I actually am still seeking more of like somebody that’s in recruitment because we’re thinking about life coaching now.

It’s so much more available to so many more people and there’s so many more ways to run a coaching business than just an entrepreneur building from scratch. There’s contract work that exists out there where you are an independent contractor there, but there are also companies and corporations and doctor’s offices.

And I don’t even know, and this is where I, like, I don’t have that expertise, what are all of the different avenues that we can bring our skill sets to so that, you know, when you’re having conversations, when you are connecting and inviting and creating. This isn’t so much talked about in this book, but I think it’s a good point to bring up of like, are we open to any of the possibilities that could be there?

Do we know for sure that the entrepreneurship business, you know, solopreneur aspect. Is 100 percent what we want to create and there’s no wrong answer and exactly and I think yeah who can you collaborate with to literally find out and how can you design your practice to fit your life how you want it to be.

Instead of, which is what I found myself in the beginning, trying to copy and model and mimic what I had been exposed to, which makes sense in the beginning why you’d want to do that because that’s the only thing you’ve seen. So yeah, I want to I want to. Echo that as someone who is just starting their journey.

This is my first kind of year as, you know, just kind of going at it, trying to get clients, that sort of thing is my marker of success was how long it would take me to make it like full time to leave my full-time job. And now I’m recreating success to say, what if it’s just a part time gig? I can, I still be successful keeping my full-time job coaching clients on the side, like, am I any less successful?

Because the whole world doesn’t know me, you know, so redefining it on my terms and just seeing. As both Debbie and you, Amy, were saying that it could just look different. Your version of success or being successful as a coach could look like, no, I’m keeping my nine to five. I coach on the weekends. I have my family life, and this works for me.

Yeah. Right. And that, yeah, designing what success looks like for you and what it is for you. Cause like for me, I’m retired. I don’t want a 40-hour gig. I don’t want, like, I just retired from 37 years doing that. So, I’m designing mine to where it’s going to happen, me working Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and however much success that is, that’s how it happens for me.

Because I want the rest of the time off because tomorrow, I’m leaving to go to the grandkids, right? And so, it’s like, but in the beginning, I was literally fighting to try to design it on Monday. I got to be here Monday through Friday. I got to work these hours. I’m like, I started really opening myself up to who says like I was like, but I mean, I know this is a different book, but Steve Chandler is also in the book.

And this is, this is what helped me do that. Oh, I haven’t read that, I have never heard of that one. It’s new, it’s just out this year. What is the name of the book? It’s called Wealth Creation for Coaches. A workbook to create a prosperous coaching practice one small step at a time, and she wrote it. It is written with Steve Chandra and the other author is Kamin Samuels, and she literally talks a lot in here in this, and it is literally a workbook about figuring out and designing what is it you want and really open yourself up to that.

And she talks a lot about you’re just testing. And right now, I’m just testing this out. I’m testing to see if I like it. I’m testing to see what it feels like, and she literally uses the word test a lot. And in her work that she does, because I did take her money lab. For three months, and it was all about what are you testing today, and what are you experimenting with today, and you those words help ease up the like, I got to get it perfect.

Right, because you’re telling yourself, oh I’m just testing this out. I want to test and see what do I like it. Do people like it? What am I, you know, like really like letting yourself open up to I’m testing and playing and experimenting. I am currently working with two coaches, Kelly Diels and Danielle Cohen.

I even know Danielle; I got her name wrong. Um, you run a low-cost program called good money. And the idea is like, cause what I’m really working on, and it does come back, I think to like the title of the book of like, what does cross for us? Yeah. What does that look like to you? What does that mean? It’s like a different way of like prosperous.

I think when people hear the word success, they automatically associate it with money. I think we’re kind of changing that. But prosperous, I think people kind of like, what does prosperity really mean? I don’t mean like prosperity, gospel kind of stuff. But like if you were truly prosperous, and so what I’m loving about good money.

Is they actually like right out of the gate help you break down, like, how many hours a week do you actually like, like, like, like, there’s like a formula, like, how many hours you actually want to work, how many of those are going to be client hours, what if you weren’t fully booked, how many, how many days of the year are you actually planning on working and so that you end up calculating, you know, what your desired income is.

And I think this is the part when I talk about life changing income, you know, life changing income, like to Nikki’s point might be a thousand extra dollars a month that is going into your kid’s college account or paying for you, your elderly parents, you know, care while like, and doing something where you love, it’s not life changing and prosperity and success isn’t all.

You know, private jets and fancy handbags, unless that’s what you want it to be. Right. But I think like really changing the dialogue of like what truly prosperous means and really approaching our businesses from what is the desired income, money that’s hitting Amy and Trey’s bank account. Versus Amy, a lot of coaching’s revenue, like what, and why, why is that what I’m really looking for?

And then actually doing the math to figure that out. And then to Debbie’s point, what are the different experiments that I’m going to run? And what are the different things that I’m going to test that helped me get there? Right. Yeah. And really letting yourself play with what does that look like? And even myself, this opened me up to like, because it is one of the things I want.

Is to be a member of lifetime fitness, the gym here, but I want to be able to write it off as a business expense because I go there and I meet people and I, you know, but yet I’m working out and just this particular lifetime here in Palm Beach gardens is one of the upscaled signature gems. And it happens to be where I’m allowed to be a member of the lifetimes under my Medicare, like advantage plan.

In all the states but Florida. So, I’m like, you know, so I can do it. And so, I’ve been to it all the time in Tennessee where my daughter lives. And so that’s what got me started on this. I was like, how can I design this, where, because I can bring two guests a month there. So how can I like make part of what I offer as like a you knew something, take them to the gym for an experience.

Yeah, yeah, and they’re there for this way or meet them in the coffee shop. Yeah. To where this is, you know, yeah, this is part of it. And how can I write all of this off? I haven’t joined it yet here because I haven’t figured all that out yet. But that’s me, I have to interject that I make sure that people know that the accounting laws.

The various states and provinces that you may live in may be different. Exactly. I’m like, so I haven’t done it. I have not done it. I’m just trying to figure it out, can I, do it? Insert the disclaimer that this is not a financial advice whatsoever. Please consult with your tax attorney. Trust me, I, I asked my tax accountant if I could write off these glasses.

Yeah. Because that’s my second pair. And so, I had to pay, you know, like my insurance didn’t cover them, but I got like a slight discount on them. And she’s like. If you only wear them strictly for work, I mean, it could be a little gray and then I ended up wearing them all of the time and she’s like, by the way, I saw these pictures of you because she’s, my face.

Yes, I guess you can do that. Right. I see you at the concert where you’re wearing your glasses. Right. So, it doesn’t mean that that’s how I’m going to do it, but that’s what I’ve been thinking about. But then. You know, but so opening yourself up to the what other kind of experiences can I offer to my clients?

And then also like what you talked about, what is prosperous to me? And so like, what does that look like and how does that actually work for you? One thing that I want to do, they’ve got like 18 core practices. What’d y’all think about those? Anything sticks out to you in particular. I’d like it, because I thought it was a mixture of great advice and maybe not so much.

So just wondering what stuck out to you guys. I think something I need to do. I actually haven’t gotten too many consultations, but the discipline number seven share stories and case study histories versus features and benefits. Yeah, I think that’s pretty powerful when you can just Okay. Yeah, I have a, especially if a relatable client who has experienced the same pain point and to give that personal level of belief that you could do that for them too, but to walk them through that story, it’s way more powerful than I have a six week package, we’ll have one on one coaching and I’ll go through even the syllabus because I do believe in the power of story and it’s a good reminder for me to go, let me pick a few case studies and memorize them so that when the time comes, I could be the best.

I’m going to use the word seller here. I don’t mean to be sleazy about that, but to market myself in the best way to give them the best chance of understanding my value. Yeah, when I read that, and this is, I’m now understanding why this has been so hard for me. It is that ADHD factor because it requires a lot of executive function to follow through.

Not my strong point friends. I’m finally grasping that that’s not a. That’s not something I am not going to fix. I got to figure out workarounds for that. That I have a gazillion case studies and I share almost none of them. I mean, I have old ones on my website, but like, why is that not one of my regular? And here’s the, one of the things that I like about the case studies and sharing examples is I think this is also, this is not.

In the, I don’t think, but it is in a ton of marketing that we see that’s the, if I can do it, anybody can, I think case studies and client examples are the answer to that, because it shows you the different kinds of people, the different paths that not everybody’s story is the same. When I’ve been on top of my testimonials, when I think about people I’ve invited on the podcast in the past.

I’ve absolutely invited people whose success was not X-dollar amounts. I mean, I have some of those stories, but I also have stories of. I’m thinking about Tammy Helfrich. I’m thinking about Amy English. I’m thinking about, and see, I know these names. I just never, when was the last time I shared these stories of, you know, back to what we were just talking about.

Everybody’s definition of success is going to be different. And this is the same with any of your niches. We don’t just have to be talking about business niches. Even if you are a career coach who helps people get promotions, your individual client stories are going to vary, right? And if they’re not all going to be the same, I think you are a new coach, as I do know that I have a lot of newer coaches.

You know, like, well, I don’t have these case studies. I think this is where offering six weeks of free coaching is low cost, you know, really low barrier to entry so that you can start creating those different case studies. And I don’t think it’s, I don’t think there’s a problem with sharing your own case study as long as it’s not shared from a, this is my story and it’s going to be your story too, no matter who you are.

Like, I think that’s where that, like, you are a case study, but you are one of. So many different things that are possible. So even I’m thinking about like weight loss coaches, you know, you’re, you’re marketing that we’re going to help you lose weight, but you know, that those individual stories, profound impact of your coaching is going to be different for your individual clients.

And that’s what we want to see. One thing that. Debbie will appreciate this. I have to figure out how to execute it. Is I really want to, uh, we’ve started putting my podcast and I’ve started uploading some shorts onto YouTube. And so, creating, putting some of these case studies. on YouTube where I have, you know, a 20-minute conversation with a client and we are on, you know, we’re on zoom together and it’s being recorded and we’re telling their story.

And that this becomes like, these become case studies that people can say, all right, Amy, Amy talks a lot, but what are we really talking about? Like there, there, that is, and I could put those on my website. I could put edited versions on my website right now. My mind is like, the execution of it is overwhelming me a little bit, but like it isn’t actually that hard to do is to, you know, thinking about people that you’ve worked with inviting them to share part of their story.

I think when it comes to asking people for testimonials or to be a case study, you know, sharing your perspective of how you saw them change and why you think that’s valuable can also help. So, like, if you’re wondering, how do I actually make that happen? I think that’s the first way, is like, think about the different stories that you could tell.

Right, you could do that just by doing what you’re doing right now. You’re recording this, it’s going on Facebook Live, then you could take this recording and put it on YouTube. Like, and you could actually use Descript. To help you create those shorts really quickly. Okay. By the way, I’m the ai and you could use AI to help you write that.

Okay. I need to have more conversations with Debbie because she’s so much better at using the ai, which that’s a whole other conversation didn’t exist from this book was written. How do, like these tools can be used for good, not just evil, so like, oh yeah, totally. As you can, that’s how I. Offset that executive function part of my brain.

I haven’t, I use AI to do that. And I, I do like some paid versions, like I have a paid tool, but I use it as, and I have like me, it’s become my virtual assistant and I use it to help me with those parts, but then I put what it creates into my, into me. But the more you use it, the more it becomes just like you.

And there’s less change that I have to actually make. Yeah, I might need to ask you for a consultation. Okay, that’s fine. Um, all right, anything else so yeah, the I love the share stories and case studies, not, you know, share stories in case studies. And tell those stories over and over again. I, I think that was another part of that thing was you don’t just tell them once you repeat these stories over and over and over again.

That one stuck out to me also. Any of these other ones. I think for me what’s helped a lot is to find the goal behind the client’s goal. Yeah, like not like the weight part. That’s really the, that’s the goal but there’s something way behind that. Yeah, or the drinking less. There’s something way behind that.

And just like even what you’re doing, that’s what you’re doing is you found that the person wants the confidence they want to handle whatever comes their way. And now we’re really right. Even when somebody says, oh, I want to make x number of dollars.” Why? Right. And what’s that real? Like, what’s that going to feel like?

What’s that going to do for you? Because that kind of leads into that other conversation we’re having around. Why did we all decide 100k was it? Yeah. Right. Like, why is that it? Yeah. Why is that number? Because you’re going to get Tiffany. Because what do you think that number is going to give you?

And for some people, it’s like legitimate filling of financial need for X thing. But it’s so good to know that. Um, one of the things that, a couple of the questions that I ask in consultation calls is like, you know, why is, did they tell you what, what their goal is? Like, why is this important? What’s the impact that that is going to have on your life?

Like, what are you imagining achieving that goal, how that impacts your life? And to me, this is different than I can’t remember because I’ve been looking at notes that I wrote down camera if they included this or not about and be careful when we’re veering into like pushing so hard on pain points.

Because in some ways we’re highlighting like the impact of this change, and there’s a way to have the conversation of like why this is so important, the impact of this change without being like, and how much is your life going to absolutely suck if you don’t say yes to me today, right? Right. That conversation leaves them feeling empowered and I think when they address it in number 15 it says leave the conversation in context of possibility.

Yeah, they’re tying it to though to affordability, but I think that you could also just leave it in possibility and not your life is going to suck if you don’t say yes to me. Yeah. Yeah. Like it does. Yeah. You could still leave them from your conversation. Having, having more hope, having more possibility, having more belief in themselves.

Yeah. I just had that conversation yesterday with, you know, one on one with one of our free to pay coaches around how, you know, how do we want our, you know, the people that we’re having conversations with, how do we want them to feel when to help them say, yes, that’s that. I think we’ve brought this up in a couple of free to pay coach calls.

So that it’s not like we’re relieving them of pain, but we are fostering the possibility like we’re, we’re, we’re. It’s the possibility and really fostering the, the belief in themselves that this is possible. Exactly. Because then now I feel like that way when you leave people like that, regardless of whether they say yes to you or not, you have left them feeling uplifted.

Better off. Yeah. Left them better off how we found them feeling like, oh God, my life is going to, you know, Like, because I didn’t say yes to so and so, my life is over kind of thing. Yeah. So, I didn’t want to go too much farther over the hour. When we’re thinking about this book, would you recommend this book to anybody?

I would with a caveat of like, you know, I found this really empowering. It focuses on the power of conversation. It empowers you to just show up as a coach in the way that you really have the reins, and you can still send out emails. Like I would just add a little bit. I agree with you that and with the caveat of keep in mind this was written in 2013 and look at all the technology since then.

Since then, how would we change? How would we adapt it? Yeah. Ken, what do you think? I, if I, um, if I did not recommend the book, I would want to find another book that would provide the same information. And since I. don’t have that at my disposal, I would recommend the book, because I think if you look at all the principles.

A lot of them still hold true because they’re principles, they’re not tactics, they’re underlying things that work for all time. Right, yeah. Might be the line from the entire hour of like, right, like, the 18 principles, they are principles, they aren’t tactics, they aren’t, You know, they dripped some like you can kind of get a vibe of what some of their tactics might have been in the execution in some of how they talk but like the 18 principles.

Yeah, I’m with you on that I think the principles in and of themselves. Stand pretty well. It stands like the seven habits of highly effective people like Stephen Covey. Like it’s been years since that book was written and yet those still stand the test of time. So, I think if we really just look at the core of the book, the power of conversation, transformation, and deep connection, we can say that those are like human principles that will stand the test of time and we can definitely update.

The strategies around marketing or what connects creating connection looks like in 2023 for a global audience to kind of update that piece. But yeah, well said Ken. Well, and especially that one too about the lamppost example. If you’re a new coach realizing, listen, if a person had a lamppost that they could go and talk to every day after work, waiting for the bus and just talking the things out, they would make a transformation in their life.

And so, realizing that yes, you can help someone make a transformation, regardless of whether you’ve had a paid client or not. I think that one was really eye-opening for me in the beginning to really realizing that helped a lot with the confidence thing. Yeah. And I think for brand new coaches, who are like, but I don’t, I’m not as, I don’t have the years of experience as so and so, absolutely.

So, you know, I think that principle, I think the only caveat I give to that principle is, you know, don’t stay the lamppost that talks back. No, no, that’s not what I meant. What I mean is, you know, the word I, and I know that, I know that you did the conversation with you would be that, you know, because they would change by talking to a lamppost.

100%. So, speaking with you, they’re definitely going to make some kind of a transformation. That’s what I meant. Yeah. For brand new coaches, which are so powerful. And it’s really funny because that’s the thing that I, I’d forgotten the entire rest of the book and that’s what I would share with newer coaches. I think that like, again, the only caveat is do continually.

Work on your coaching skills to improve so that you do become that coach that sharpening their skills and, and creating faster, deeper transformation than when they started. But when you are a brand-new coach and you’re, and, and even if you’ve done your, you know, hours of pre-coaching for your certification, that helped me have conversations that I felt too uncomfortable to have.

Oh, yeah, I’m better than a left lamppost post because I can talk back. And they do cover that if you go further, like number 18 is great at what you do, not just good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they covered it. They do. Yeah. So, and it is almost any of the caveat I might have with any one of the 18 somewhere in one of the other 18, they’ve actually followed up.

So again, I think it does go back to they are in general good principles. Adapt them to 2013. Use your discernment of like how you want to take that. And, but I think, you know, having conversations, understanding how powerful life coaching can help people. That’s why we are here in the first place and be willing to continuously improve.

Ourselves along. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say my overall, I think I’m, I’m kind of in the boat with you guys. I would say I would recommend this with caveats of like, yeah, I mean, I think there’s some good principles. Here’s some concerns I might have. I think the one thing I don’t know; I think I casually mentioned it, but one caveat I would give is the, you know, this book does make a lot of assumptions around the world.

I’m assuming these gentlemen have a lot of connections to corporate contacts that a lot of average people would not. So, the simple, I feel like there’s a little oversimplification right out of the gate of like how easy this can be. So, I think that would be the other caveat I would give is, you know, nurture the networks you have, but for some people.

Those networks are going to need to be nurtured in new and different ways than are covered in this book. They do make that like, I, I’m making the assumption that these guys had a lot of corporate contacts, and a lot of people are going to have that. So that would be the only other than that would be a caveat I would give also.

So, all right. Thank you. All right. Great. Thank you. This was awesome. It was awesome. We’ll have to decide what the next book is. All right. All right. Take care. Bye

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