Ep #141: Breaking Rules & 5-Figure Months with Caroline Holke

You are listening to episode 141 of The Confident Coaches Podcast, the one where you’re going to see all the different ways that you can break rules to make that 100K. Let’s go.

Welcome to The Confident Coaches Podcast, a place for creating the self-confidence you need to do your best work as a life coach. If you want to bring more boldness, more resilience, and more joy to your work, this is the place for you. I’m your host, Amy Latta. Let’s dive in.

Well hi, coaches. It’s so good to talk to you again. I know that you’ve been hearing episodes one week after another, but I haven’t actually recorded an episode in about a month, and all of that is probably good. I still have got a little bit of stuff going on. I’m telling you my lungs and my chest, and I’ve gotten more chest colds since I got Covid at Christmas, but we just keep going. We just keep drinking all the Throat Coat that I can buy from the stores.

I’m so excited to bring the guest I have for you today. This is my client, Caroline Holke, she is a current member of the mastermind. And she and I have really taught each other so much in the past six months. In fact, right out of the gate I start sharing how she challenged me and my thinking and why I love that about her.

I think you’re going to find in this episode that Caroline really was somebody who could break a lot of rules in one area and struggled in another area. But by the end of these six months of this mastermind that we are in together you will see the variety of different ways breaking rules came up for her and how that has helped her grow, move forward, make more money than she has in the past. So much goodness to pay attention to.

We’re going to talk about those few layers of rule breaking we did together, how she created that first five figure month. Plus she’s had some really, I have to be honest with you, she has some really amazing parallels between building your coaching business and drinking less, which is her specialty.

She also, I do want to add, she does mention Confident Coaches Mastermind, she does mention CCM in this episode, and she is referring to the mastermind. As you know, or if this is your first episode you ever learned we’ve re-branded, it’s a brand new mastermind starting in this August called Path To 100k. But that is the same way, that’s the same mastermind that you can work with me in.

So here’s Carolyn.

Amy: Okay, friends, I am incredibly excited to invite to the show today one of, I have to tell you, one of my favorite clients that I’ve had because she did not put up with any bullshit coming out of my mouth. She was one of the first people to always say, “Wait a minute.”

Caroline, I’m so excited to have you here. Friends, this is Caroline Holke. She helps smart, successful women get rid of the shitty parts of drinking. I am so excited to have you on the podcast this week.

Caroline: Thank you so much, Amy. I’m thrilled to be here.

Amy: Yes. And I am serious, I always love a client that looks me in the eye and go, “This thing you just said, I don’t know about this.” So I have to say right out of the gate I loved how you from the very beginning were not afraid to say, to just question and challenge. I think this is a big thing that we don’t see a lot of in the coaching community.

We hire a coach and we’re just like, whatever they say like I’m just going to go do that. And you did that, but not without raising your hand, not without asking questions. Is that just kind of part of a natural part of who you are?

Caroline: Definitely. It’s just that, well I like to challenge, I like to think about or challenge anything that doesn’t sit right with me. And so I figure if that’s the case for me, then help me understand what’s going on here.

Amy: Yeah, I love that.

Caroline: Yeah, and I think one of the earliest parts was my background is in marketing and I think it was in reaction to one of the emails that I had received from you. And I was like, hey, listen.

Amy: Yeah, and I think a lot of people coming into a program like mine, I mean, that’s definitely, those are the kinds of things that I would have thought but never said in the past. And so I think that right there is a muscle to build for coaches who don’t feel like they have the right to raise their hand and say, “Hey, something you’ve said or done here…”

But what I really love and why I’m kind of calling it out right from the very beginning is you always did that very respectfully, without assuming the absolute worst. You know, without assuming that there was a horrible, shitty intention on my part. Because I think a lot of people think that.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: If we challenge the voice coming at us, we are inherently thinking the worst.

Caroline: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: It’s the difference between, I think the word I would put it is just you’re incredibly curious. I think this is an important lesson because let’s talk about where you were. You’ve had amazing success in just one round.

Caroline: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I’ve gotten a lot out of it.

Amy: Yeah. If I were to pull way back and go, what do you see in Caroline that you really think helped foster that? I think it’s your curiosity and your willingness to challenge from that place of curiosity what’s happening. Because then you’re really challenging yourself also.

Caroline: Mm-hmm, I certainly try to do that. It’s much easier to do with clients than it is with myself, for sure. But I mean, yeah, I definitely bring that. I almost think of it when I am, I don’t know, maybe it’s easier with clients but when I think about I’m in a situation with a client I almost look at it as like pattern recognition. And I see the things that pop out, like, ooh, that doesn’t fit right. Tell me more about that. And that is, I guess, where the curiosity comes into play.

Amy: It’s so good. You were messaging me for, I don’t even remember how long. We were in contact with one another for quite a while before you signed up for the mastermind.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: What was the thing, do you think? Was it someplace where you were? What was it in you that said, okay, this is going to be the next step that I go? How were you able to identify what you needed?

Caroline: When I was ready to say I’m not ready. Well, I think it was probably one of your trainings, your weeklong trainings that really kind of got me thinking a little more actively. Oh, I know what it was, it was last summer and you had done one of the trainings and you challenged me somehow, you coached me and then I signed a client like that day. And I was like, wow, she knows something there.

Amy: That’s always fun.

Caroline: I know. Yeah, that was very cool. Like this stuff works, damn.

Amy: Do you remember at all what it was I coached you on? I don’t remember what the little bolt that needed loosened or whatever.

Caroline: It may have been that there are people out there that are watching right now that need my help.

Amy: Yes, that is something I know that we’ve coached on before.

Caroline: Mm-hmm.

Amy: If you believe that there was somebody out there right now, even though they’re not responding.

Caroline: Right.

Amy: Right.

Caroline: Which is so funny, because people contact me or I’ll run into people and they’ll say, oh, I watched your videos, or I’m doing this or whatever. Or you might as well just put my name on those things half the time. Which is so funny because I will think, because it’ll go for periods of time where not many people are interacting with the posts or whatever.

But I’ve chosen not to use that as a KPI that I look at because I do, anecdotally people will tell me I’m watching, I’m soaking everything in that you’re sending out. It’s like, okay.

Amy: Okay, I’m going to stop you for you minute. What do you mean by, what’s KPI? That’s a marketing term.

Caroline: Key performance index.

Amy: Yes.

Caroline: A metric.

Amy: A metric, yes. So what you’re pointing out right there, and I’m so glad that that’s the thing that you’re noting, that that’s what I coached you on is what we use as metrics, what we use as evidence, your term you’re using very classic marketing term, KPI, of how do I know if my stuff is working or not?

And we will use are people engaging, and we’ll even decide that engagement like, well, yeah, they’re liking but they’re not commenting. Well, yeah, they’re commenting, but they’re not… We even define engagement differently. And I think this right here is one of the biggest struggles that we can have, is nobody’s responding to me the way that I want them to right now. And I’m using that as the measure of whether or not this is working.

Caroline: It’s such a classic trap. And it’s interesting because I actually use this with my clients that are learning how to stop over drinking. When they’re changing their relationship with alcohol it’s so easy to say, well, let’s talk about all the things that I’ve done wrong. I’m like, yeah, but let’s talk about these things that you’re doing right. Like you’re showing up, you’re doing the work.

And to me, it’s so logical. Okay, here’s my analytical brain here that comes into play. Like of course it’s going to work because all I have to do is keep getting up and keep moving forward and it will work.

Amy: Right.

Caroline: I mean, there’s no question. Like I use the example of potty training. Nobody is ever worried that their kid is going to be 16 and not potty trained. It will happen, right? Like it’s going to happen.

Amy: Good point. As a mother of two boys who are well past the age of four, it’s like okay. I know they say kindergarten is the marker, but we’re really getting close to there.

Caroline: Right, but when you drop the rope and you’re like, it’s going to happen. All I got to do is like go through the, like I just have to keep going through the motions.

Amy: This is so good. And what we talk about so much of like the difference between, okay this isn’t working, so throw the whole thing out. Versus okay, this is working but there are small things that maybe I could adjust.

Caroline: And I can make it better.

Amy: Right, the parallel between you growing your business and what you and your stop over drinking clients need to do.

Caroline: Absolutely.

Amy: Yeah, it reminds me of the parallel we often use between growing your business and losing weight. I think growing your business and drinking less.

Caroline: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, it’s exactly the same thing.

Amy: Tell me more about that. What parallels do you see between what we’re doing in business to grow and sign more clients versus what you’re doing with your clients?

Caroline: Right, right, right. So what will happen is we’re super excited in the beginning, right? And I’m like doing all the things, I’m doing my drink plan, I’m capturing my urges. That’s on the drinking side, right? On the business side I’m super excited, I’m creating my website, I am posting on social, da, da, da.

And on the drinking side then I screw up, I don’t follow my drink plan. And then there’s the spiral of this totally sucks. I’m never going to be able to figure this out. It’s not working. It’s whatever, I’m going to go curl into a ball and go watch Netflix for two weeks, right? Same exact thing happens on our business. I’m not getting the engagement. Nobody’s signing up. There’s something terribly wrong with me and I might as well just quit. Like, forget it, I’m just going to go work at McDonald’s.

Amy: Or I’m just going to go sit on the couch and watch Netflix.

Caroline: Or sit on the couch and watch Netflix, yeah.

Amy: The actions actually might look very, very similar.

Caroline: Yeah, exactly.

Amy: But the thinking might be very different. And I think this is so powerful because I think so many of us have really powerful evidence that we can change patterns in our life. We have so many things in our life that we could turn to and be like, I used to be here and now I’m here. And the only reason was because I didn’t give up and I believed I could do it.

And yet when it comes to growing our business and making more powerful invitations to work with us and signing clients, we’re like, but not that.

Caroline: Right. And I think that maybe there’s an aspect of that because we’re putting ourselves out there, because it’s about us, it’s so much easier to market pet food or something else, right? Because it’s not me specifically that I’m putting out on the line. And I think that it’s very vulnerable, it’s something that’s completely different. That’s one aspect of it.

And I think with the drinking too, there’s so much shame associated with it. There must be something wrong with me because I can’t do this because what I have done in the past has not worked.

Amy: Yeah. How has shame showed up? Here, let me just dive into your shame. How has this showed up for you? And how have you been able to work through that shame, either with over drinking, shame in your business? Like what are those parallels for you?

Caroline: I think most people, just because of our society, because of the rules that we have in society, because of the expectations, whatever. I think there is a general belief that you’re either a good drinker, normal drinker, or not and you have to go to AA and rehab and all that kind of stuff.

And my belief is that there’s a huge gray area in there and that most people, because of the perception that it’s black and white, will not get help because if they get help that only means rehab and AA and all these things that we actually that’s too much.

And I grew up my brother was an alcoholic and I definitely knew that. I knew what it was like to be, you know, just through him, I didn’t know it personally. But what it was like to be in AA and to go to rehab multiple times and do this over and over again. And so I did, for sure, I waited for a long time to get help because I knew that that wasn’t the right thing. I had no awareness that there was help, that you could actually get help in this gray area.

So that kept me stuck for a really long time. And I know that there are people out there, and that’s what motivates me so much, is I can’t tell you how many times I meet people and they’re like, I had no idea that you could do anything about it. I’m like, yeah. Why wait until you’re like, I think there’s a saying in AA about how once a cucumber becomes a pickle, it can’t become a cucumber again.

Amy: And I love the parallels of how I’ve been cogitating, or thinking a lot about this, of you’re either here or you’re here. So, well, I’m not here, I’m not completely lost. I’m not like completely struggling so I guess. But actually, 95% of us live in that gray area in between. And I notice so much how it’s just our brains really like binary, our brains either like it’s either A or it’s B. You know, when it comes to where we are when we’re building businesses of I’m either killing it or I’m sucking.

Caroline: Right, right, right.

Amy: I’m either hitting home runs with every single post I make or no one wants to work with me.

Caroline: Right?

Amy: Whereas the reality is 95% of our work is in that gray middle and it’s just the willingness to keep going. And I think to what you said before about just our willingness to handle the shame that will come up because we think we’re supposed to know how to do this on our own with no struggles.

Caroline: Right. And I think for me, one of the things, you know, I worked in corporate marketing for 22 years and I had kind of a big job and people working for me, and I had big budgets and all that stuff. And then all of a sudden, like the flip to okay, now I’m the CEO and the janitor, and it’s like, oh my God. What?

Amy: I’ve never thought of myself as the janitor. But if I were to pan down my camera, you would see that the janitor has apparently not worked in a couple weeks. So yes, so true.

Caroline: So which has been cool, okay, two sides of the coin. Not to be binary but it’s like, oh shit, what I do? But it’s also like, oh, cool. Because I had been doing the other thing for a really long time and it was getting into a rinse and repeat kind of a situation. Not totally, but I can kind of see that. This is totally new territory. How much new stuff can I learn? And so that’s exciting too.

Amy: Teaching you, which I also came from a corporate background. And we didn’t break rules in corporate marketing.

Caroline: God no.

Amy: That was not part of any marketing plan. It was like, ooh, what can we do that was kind of exciting? But it was so constrained within corporate business.

Caroline: Right.

Amy: This was a big thing for you in the mastermind, encouraging you learning how to break rules. Let’s talk about that. What kind of rules? What was the first thing do you remember that felt like, I don’t know if I can do that?

Caroline: I think basically what it was for me was I really appreciated your style of here’s the path to 100K, and yet I’m going to tell you out of the other side of my mouth that you’ve got to break all the rules. And I’m like, how does that work?

Amy: This is everything that you need to do, and also go do the exact opposite of this.

Caroline: Right. And so I guess for me the process really was, and you did a beautiful job of kind of threading the needle there. But what I also, in addition to that I also kind of needed to be overwhelmed with all the different options. And so that, by default, said there is no one way.

Amy: Yeah.

Caroline: And so if there are an infinite number of options and an equal number, whatever number it is, of people that are successful doing all these different things, then that means that there is no one way.

Amy: Yeah.

Caroline: And so there are some fundamentals that we can utilize, like the evaluations, I think those are so helpful. Like the allowing time for Gigi thinking and understanding that we can make space for multiple different conflicting thoughts at the same time. Those elements helped me to kind of weed through the noise and decide what I wanted to work on, how I wanted to show up in my business, which was so, so helpful.

Amy: The thing that came to mind when we kind of talked about this pre interview about the specific path and whatever was your January and then your February. Can we share a little bit about your January and your February?

Caroline: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so we talked at the end, very end of December and I signed up and I was like, hell yeah, I’m going to make that money back. And so I made, it was a little over 10,000 in January. And it was a little bit slower in February, I don’t remember what my numbers were. But in February I was like, well people hire life coaches in January, obviously.

Amy: Yes. So for everybody to know, January was your first five figure month that you ever had before, right?

Caroline: Mm-hmm.

Amy: So number one, I will share this story 100,000 times until it gets through listeners ears. You can come off the best month you’ve ever had and think not everything is going well, right?

Caroline: Right.

Amy: You could come off of your first five figure month and actually use that against yourself.

Caroline: But I wasn’t even off it and I was like, “Well shit, this isn’t going to happen next month. What the hell am I going to do?” Like I wasn’t even, January wasn’t even closed and I was already worried that I was done, like my pipeline is gone, forget it.

Amy: Yes, I know. Everybody listening right now really, really wants to believe that you’ll feel so sure you can sell like you’ve never sold before once you’ve done it. And client after client, I think Shawna Samuel was on here just a few weeks ago sharing how she had, right after her first five figure month she had the same exact reaction. Which people, until you’ve been there, I know you don’t believe it’s going to happen.

Caroline: Nope.

Amy: And I think the rule for you was you’re like, well, I sell over drinking and people are only going to buy that in January as, obviously, that’s why I made so much money in January. Obviously because that’s the only month of the year that they’re going to buy this.

Caroline: Only month. I can just pack it up, I can go to France and I’m done.

Amy: So I remember coaching you throughout the month of February and into March of really like taking this, it reminds me of the first time someone told me, this was way back when I was, so this would have been five, six years ago. This is when I was still a weight loss coach and I was actively choosing to turn my marketing off mid-November because, and I said out loud, nobody buys weight loss in November and December.

And the coach staring back at me was like, what? Why? Why are you even saying that? Literally like this was like her telling me the sky was chartreuse green. Like I was like, no, you don’t understand. Like hi. And I’m so glad I went through that coaching because it was so much easier for me to coach you because you were so sure.

Caroline: I’m like, you don’t even know, Amy, come on.

Amy: People don’t do dry February, Amy, they do dry January. Come on.

Caroline: Yes.

Amy: Yes. So like I even want to notice that even that are the kind of rules that we are finding and trying to break. Not just the I can build this business any way, but like what rules have you, I had a rule that people didn’t buy weight loss at the end of the year, they wait until January. So why should I be looking to make sales in November? Nobody’s wanting to lose weight at Thanksgiving.

Caroline: The day after they do.

Amy: The day after, right? 

Caroline: They sure as hell do.

Amy: But I was so sure of that I was actually willing to pull myself back. And so that’s just what I was seeing in you.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: So it’s not just rules as far as I’m allowed to build my business this way or that. But what rules have you decided about your niche or your audience or when people buy your thing?

Caroline: Yeah, absolutely. No, that’s great that you pointed that out. I mean, that is absolutely something that I have worked through, it pops up. It’ll pop up every now and then, but I know it’s not true. I do know that. So I viscerally understand that and it’s much easier to just kind of ignore that when it pops up.

Amy: Yeah, and I think that’s important too, we can learn how to break the rule, it doesn’t mean that the rule won’t pop back up again. I feel like just last month or maybe the month before, I can’t remember, I feel like it came back up again. It like creeped back in.

Caroline: Yeah, a little bit.

Amy: Yeah.

Caroline: Again, it was coming off of a big month and I was like, “Yeah, well, you know…”

Amy: Again with those big months.

Caroline: I know. See, there you go. And that’s breaking the rule that, the belief that money will make it better. There’s no amount of money in the bank account that will make you feel like, or number of clients or whatever that are going to make you feel confident. That is definitely what comes from within.

Amy: Yeah, there’s no amount, again, I’m going to say it again. There’s no amount of money in the bank, there’s no amount of clients on the roster that will make you think you know what you’re doing, that will make you think that you can replicate it over again.

Caroline: Right.

Amy: And that is funny that both times that those rules came up came right after two different months where you really did amazing. The second time, was that also a 5k month? I don’t remember that one.

Caroline: No, it was 7500.

Amy: 7500, okay.

Caroline: But that was like in a week. So you had issued this challenge and I was like, hell yeah, do that.

Amy: That’s right. That was where I challenged everybody to go make like $5,000. And if you’d already done that go make $10,000.

Caroline: Yeah, it must have been right after mastermind, probably.

Amy: Yeah, I think so. And like go, because it came right off of the conversation that I had with my, which podcast listeners, my interview with Melanie McNamara who went and made $10,000 in two hours during the Life Coach School Mastermind event. And it just challenged my brain to go okay, what do we think sounds crazy and impossible? And I issued that challenge and you went and you signed somebody $7500.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: Yeah. Which, and then we’ve had this conversation also within the mastermind, that for some people that challenge really shrunk them and made them feel like I can’t do that. Another client like you took it, ran with it.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: And so I think this is also why when you are working with clients, one of the things I’m challenged with is learning your guys’ style. You know, what motivates you? Going back to is talking money and challenges going to motivate you or is that going to shut you down?

Caroline: Yeah, and I mean actually I think about that with my clients. I think about it almost like a combination lock, you know, those little lockers or whatever the locks that you’ve, I don’t know, we probably bought 20 of them because I don’t know how the hell kids lose those things. I don’t get it, but they lose them.

But you can imagine it, maybe there are 40 numbers on their, 30 numbers, whatever, but there’s an exponential number of combinations, right? There’s a finite number of numbers, but so many different combinations. And I feel that way with whether you’re talking about coaching with increasing confidence or whatever, everybody’s a little bit different so their combination is going to be a little bit different.

And thinking that there’s a one size fits all is just so short sighted, because we as individuals are also multi-dimensional. So of course, we’re going to have a different combination that’s going to like unlock everything for us.

Amy: I love this analogy because I think people will get it, particularly when you say there’s a finite amount of numbers, meaning there is a finite number of ways to go out there and do your thing. But there’s an infinite amount of combinations.

And you are a Life Coach School coach, and you are a stop over drinking coach, but you are not the only one. And I hear this a lot too, of like why are there so many coaches that are all doing the same thing? And I’m always like, but we’re not.

Caroline: No, not at all. Not at all.

Amy: I’m going to throw a question out at you that you’re not necessarily prepared for, but I know I’ve asked it before. And it’s, again, something that’s really been on my mind of like do you know, if there are you and all the other stop over drinking coaches all lined up in a row, why would they choose you?

This, to me, is one of the most powerful questions that you can ask yourself. So listeners, I want you to pay attention to this, that is one of the most powerful, if you really are all doing the exact same thing. Of course, you’re not because you are not the exact same. Why would someone choose you?

Caroline: The reason that people choose me is because of how I explain things. I love having all the different analogies and bringing it home to real life, like the potty training example or the whatever. That’s how I understand things. That makes things more understandable for me and memorable and it kind of sticks in my brain. And I know that the people, my clients that really get the best results are the ones that really resonate with that approach.

Which is not to say, I mean, I’ve got amazing peers that went through the Life Coach School and all have fantastic businesses and stuff like that. My approach is a little bit different because I’m Carolyn Holke. I’m not Rachel Hart, I’m not, you know, whoever. And it’s all good and there’s space for all of it because not everybody is going to want group. Or maybe they like how I explain things a little bit differently. Maybe they like the way Rachel explains things. Maybe they, whatever it is, I don’t know.

I mean I’m offering one on one and my clients love that. I love that right now. I love the privacy of it, particularly within this field. And I love being able to pivot so quickly to whatever that client needs right now. So, I mean, those are kind of the things that come to mind with that question.

Amy: Yeah, and you’re going to bring, I think, the most important thing and I think this is what we can be, you know, even if somebody else also uses great analogies et cetera, there’s a flavor to you, Caroline, people are not going to get someplace else.

Caroline: Right. Absolutely. And I will say that right now I do have a creative side, which I anticipate bringing into my coaching too. That will be a little bit further down the road. But that’s another aspect that I’ll be, you know, that kind of peppers its way in.

Amy: I am intrigued, I have to tell you.

Caroline: Yeah, good.

Amy: Any foreshadowing, any hints as to what you mean bringing creative side?

Caroline: Yeah, so I think that, we’re all familiar, I mean, the whole point with stop over drinking, stop over eating is that we’re trying to get away from our emotions. We’re trying to like make all that stop. What I hear so consistently is I’ve got to get my brain to stop.

And what I know from my experience is that when I am drawing, or doing crochet, or doing something like that, then I breathe. Okay, it sounds totally crazy, but like I naturally take a deep breath. And I found that so healing for me. I know that that was, for me, that was a way to get out of my head and like get into my body.

And I think that that’s so important because, particularly for people like me that are very analytical, and it’s like keep me the hell away from my body. I don’t want anything to do with that shit. I want to think my way out of this, dammit. And that’s not always the way that it works. So I think that incorporating those other aspects will be, I’m figuring out what that looks like right now. And so I’ll be bringing that in.

Amy: And I really love this. I love, and I want to challenge everybody and I think it’s all part of that I can break the rules conversation of what things do seem a little out there? You know, for years I have seen a, for lack of better words, an energy practitioner who helps get my chakras aligned and get my energy flowing again. And I don’t understand most of that, but for sure it’s had a powerful impact in my ability to keep going.

So I set a separate meeting with her to help me help my people because this is something that’s important. So it’s not something that a lot of people immediately come to mind. Particularly life coaches where it’s like trained in a CBT oriented background, cognitive behavioral therapy, you know, what you think is. We’re talking about putting our brain aside and actually going into our body.

And I love that you are, because yes, I would say first impression, you’re going to bring your marketing background into it, you’re very analytical, you’re using KPIs.

Caroline: You want to see a spreadsheet?

Amy: Yeah, exactly. Let’s put your drinking into a spreadsheet and we’ll analyze the data, et cetera. So I love the idea of you, and this is news to me, I’m watching Caroline on the screen going, I love this. Like as your coach I’m so excited to hear that you are taking this thing that maybe you haven’t shared with people, you’re bringing it to the table and saying, hey, let’s add this and see what happens.

Caroline: Yeah. I know from my experience that it definitely works. So yeah, we’ll play with it and not promising any sort of magical crochet masterpieces. In fact, I will admit that actually I get a little bit of a pleasure when I’m working on something and then I’ll rip the whole thing out and I just crack up when my husband or my daughter look at me like I’m totally insane. I’m like no, it’s the journey, it’s the process that I enjoy.

Amy: Yes, and I love this. And I love that you have found the confidence to bring something, it has not been, I think what you said is what I want to offer to the person that’s listening right now is you haven’t actually figured out exactly how it fits in yet, I take it?

Caroline: It will be there somewhere.

Amy: Exactly. So you know, I’m planning the next Path To 100K event and I know that I’m bringing in elements I haven’t done. And there’s a whole lot of Larissa and I, Larissa my business manager going, I don’t know, let’s just see how it goes.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: I don’t really know what this is going to look like, I’ve never taught this before. I’ve never presented it this way before. We’re just going to see how it goes. That is really, I really want to offer to everybody like going back to your example of the combination lock, like you don’t have to have 10, 10, 10 be your combination. Let it be weird and obscure and just try things out. Because if it doesn’t land, you can always change it.

Caroline: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Amy: Yeah. And I know that we’ve been talking kind of like in a parallel of how you grew in the mastermind and how what you’ve learned has overlapped to your wanting to help these powerful women. Why is this what you are doing? Why is this so important to you to help?

Caroline: This has definitely been my journey, you know, my last hangover was in August of 2016. And I started listening to Brooke, I found her podcast. I was one of the first people that signed up for Scholars and I was definitely all about stop over drinking. And I figured that out, I figured that out for myself.

I used those tools to go on and work on my relationship with my family. And then decided that I really wanted to look at my career and all that stuff. So I know that these tools work. I chose stop over drinking, because that was so impactful for me. That really did change my life.

And I talk about this concept of not being a meteorologist, like nothing wrong with meteorologists, but I’ve never had the spark to be a meteorologist. Like super cool that people do that. But I’ve known for a long time, I knew for a long time that there was something up with my drinking. Like I had that nudge.

And the fact that I figured out how to change that for myself, I mean, my identity was definitely, I mean, I was full on I’m at the bar buying shots for everybody, no question. First of all, I rallied everybody to get to the bar and then I’m buying the shots.

And so that identity shift, that identity shift is real. And the work that got me there along that journey, I know that I’m a different person now. And I decided to leave corporate and do this full time because I feel like it’s such an honor to be witness to somebody’s transformation like that. I mean, I think it’s amazing to be able to offer these tools. I think it’s crazy amazing that I get to do this work, that I get to share this work with other people and watch them change their lives. It’s phenomenal.

Amy: That’s so good. Yeah, and to be able to create an income. And I know that your end goal in terms of income, like you’re really wanting to have a high multi six-figure business that’s really going to be able to replace the past corporate, you know, and allow so much more freedom for you and your family. How do you feel now than say maybe a year ago in terms of like the possibility? Or even six months ago in terms of the possibility?

Caroline: Yeah, I mean, it’s just that example before of I know all I have to do is keep getting up and keep moving forward and it’s as good as done. I just don’t have to, as long as I don’t quit it’ll happen.

Amy: That seems so simple.

Caroline: I know. Yes. But okay, as long as I don’t quit. Okay, and let’s say it this way, as long as I manage my mind. It’s just like with stop over drinking, it’s like as long as you don’t quit, you’ll make it. I don’t know, why wouldn’t I believe?

Amy: Friends, could it be that simple, we just don’t quit? Okay, so we know what you’ve made so far this year. And now I’ve challenged you to triple that the second half of this year with that I don’t quit, I’m going to try a bunch of different things I’ve not tried before, I’m going to keep breaking rules. And obviously we know your Achilles heel thought, so to speak, that really sticky thought of, well, I sold all I’m going to sell.

Caroline: Right.

Amy: As long as you keep doing that and all through being able to help. I think you had shared with me about that the percentage of, how the pandemic has increased.

Caroline: Yeah, so American women are reporting they have 41% more heavy drinking days than they did before the pandemic. So, I mean, think about that number. Yeah. So if this is you, your listeners, then you’re not alone at all. Not at all.

Amy: And I really want to, you know, I’m kind of like phrasing this of like you going to create this business that’s going to bring in the multiple six figures that you want to create for your family and the lifestyle that you want to live. That like these two things, helping these women who are drinking more now than they’ve ever drank before.

A lot of times I think us coaches can like, helping people and making a lot of money feels like it’s in conflict with one another. Like these are somehow morally or ethically opposed to one another as opposed to when I am in, you know, I’m just going to put everything out into the world.

Caroline: Okay, yeah.

Amy: How are you feeling about that one?

Caroline: Totally fine. That’s not sticky at all. I have no problem with that. Well, I mean, come on, let’s all think about how many things we’ve signed up for free that we haven’t done. How many of those are in your inbox right now?

Amy: Hi, you’re not supposed to be calling me out on this interview. How dare you.

Caroline: Didn’t you start with that? Isn’t it what you said that you liked? Okay. Okay, just wondering.

Amy: Or how many $25 classes of this or that? I’m like, sure, I’ll sign up for that.

Caroline: I’ll get to that later.

Amy: I’ll get to it later, yeah. I have a full, like true story. She’s calling me out but I will own up to it. I have a folder of programs that I bought that I haven’t taken in my email inbox.

Caroline: I mean, all of us do. We all do.

Amy: Yeah, because it was like $7, or it was free, or it was $25. And I’m like, oh, I’ll totally get to that.

Caroline: Right. 

Amy: When I pay, you know, Kara Loewentheil $15,000 to become a feminist coach, you bet I show up.

Caroline: You show up.

Amy: My husband would be super pissed if I didn’t. I would be super pissed if I didn’t.

Caroline: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And not that it has to be like that, but human behavior, I mean, we’re kind of wired that way. When you have skin in the game you show up in a different way than if it’s a throw away, if it’s a freebie, if it’s a whatever.

Look, I have no problems with freebies. I have no problem with them. I think that they’re very effective and they’ll get you to a certain degree. I mean, I’ve got a free stop over drinking lead magnet right now. And super simple, it’s like condensed down to the first, like the three key things to know. Really helpful.

Really helpful but it’s important to continue to show up. We can’t read a couple bullet points and just expect this transformation, you know, whatever to happen to us. Like these habits develop over time and unwinding them will take some time too, and that’s okay.

Amy: Yes, and that’s a part of the conversation I think is so important because I do think it’s a struggle that coaches can have to charge. And your program is not, what is it like $1,500?

Caroline: Mm-hmm, for 12 weeks.

Amy: For 12 weeks, you know, we’re not talking, and this is one of the reasons why I wanted to bring this up with you is because I think a lot of coaches can think, oh, I have to charge $5,000 or $10,000 or $15,000. And I’m like, I don’t know, Caroline is kicking ass over here with a $1,500 program.

Caroline: Yeah, no, I mean, and that’s the thing too, I mean, I feel really good about that price. I feel like that’s totally accessible. If you want to learn how to stop over drinking, if you want to drink less and live more, that’s nothing. But it’s still there’s some skin in the game. You know, my clients show up and they want to do the work and that’s probably why I feel so good about the cost, is that I really do feel like that’s, I don’t feel like I’m charging too much.

Amy: I think so many of us life coaches get into this from, you know, we just want to help people. So charging money to help people, I really want to help us kind of detach that, like these two things are in conflict with one another.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: So I just love this conversation of you’re like, yeah, let’s be honest, if I look at my own human behavior, I show up when I’ve paid for something. And I take it more seriously, I do the work, I show up to the calls.

Caroline: Yeah.

Amy: So anything else? Like when you’re thinking about the listener that’s out there listening right now.

Caroline: That the mastermind has been fantastic for me. I really have grown a ton, not only in the tangible amount. I mean, I know that I’ve had some fantastic successes, absolutely, from a financial standpoint. But also the intangible parts of really growing into my own confidence and knowing what I can offer to others as a coach and not having my value as a coach dependent upon what Stripe tells me when I look at my app.

Amy: That’s so good.

Caroline: So that has been true freedom.

Amy: So good. How not to have your value as a coach and a human be dictated by your Stripe account.

Caroline: Yeah, right? It’s pretty good. I get to decide what that is.

Amy: Yes, exactly. So those of you who are loving, like how can people connect with you? How can they get your stop over drinking freebie and all your good stuff?

Caroline: Through my website, which is carolineholkecoaching.com. And then on social it’s the same. On Facebook or on Instagram it’s Caroline Holke Coaching. And I will include all that stuff in the, I’ll give you all that stuff so you can do the links in the show notes.

Amy: Yeah, we’ll have all that in the show notes of how to do that. But yeah, Caroline Holke, and that’s H-O-L-K-E, right?

Caroline: Yes. And then I will, just one last little thing that I do want to include is that I think that we coaches have our own special sauce of shame that we layer on to anything, because we’re a coach. You can’t see my air quotes, but we’re a coach and we should know better.

And I think that in addition to the societal crap that we have about drinking, we layer on that special sauce of I’m a coach and I should know better and it keeps people even more stuck. Which is why I do work with quite a few coaches, and I think they do like the one on one container for that reason. Just want to throw that out there for your listeners.

Amy: And I think it is really important, this I’m a coach and I should know better, I don’t know that there’s a niche around where there’s not a coach struggling with the very thing. If you’re a coach, you know, we’re talking about marriages, if we’re talking about relationships with our mothers, if we’re talking about weight, or are trying not to lose weight and actually just body image and body acceptance. If we’re talking about sales, if we’re talking about marketing, if we’re talking about over drinking.

You’re right, we carry this special, you’re calling it special sauce. I’ve always used the term special sauce as like a positive thing.

Caroline: Like a good thing? Okay. 

Amy: Yeah, so when said it to me like an, oh, that’s a sauce I don’t want on the plate.

Caroline: No, you don’t want that one. 

Amy: But yeah, I think that right there, I’m a coach and I should know better shame is a, I can’t think of a coach that I have interacted with who doesn’t carry that in some way in some area of their life.

Caroline: Right. Yep, I think we all understand that one, definitely.

Amy: We all understand that one. So I think anybody who, you know, coaches, if you’re out here listening right now I mean there’s so many. If you can learn to identify when you fall into that, when you notice that, to be able to see the source of shame because you’re a coach and you should know better. I think the biggest reminder is you are a coach by profession, you are a coach by desire of what you want to do with your life. But you are a human.

Caroline: Absolutely.

Amy: And humans, we get over dramatic, we blow things up that are not that big of a deal, it’s either this or that, or we do all of the things.

Caroline: Yeah, brains are going to brain.

Amy: Brains are going to brain, humans are going to human. All right, my friends. So, Caroline, thank you so much. Guys, it’s Caroline Holke Coaching, check out her website, get her freebie. Caroline, thank you.

Caroline: Thanks, Amy.

Amy: You are absolutely welcome. It’s been an absolute, I’ve loved having you challenge, some of which I changed my opinion on things. Some of which I was like, no, sister, this is where we’re going and this is why.

Caroline: All good.

Amy: Keep having amazing months.

Caroline: Thank you.

Amy: Keep showing up the following month when your brain says there’s no more. And just thank you so much for being here today.

Caroline: Thanks, Amy. I appreciate it.

I mean, was I right or was I right? So many good little nuggets. I loved as we were talking all of the different ways that we were able to point out and this is a little version of rule breaking, and this is a little version of rule breaking.

Rule breaking shows up in multiple ways in your business and having me alongside you as your guide is how you’re going to be able to figure out where they are creeping up and you’re not even aware of, that whole part of managing your mind she was talking about. And seriously, how much did you love the combination lock analogy? How could you use that in your coaching business?

I for sure will be using that. I’m teaching a new class concept in Path To 100K around how to take, if all of these things are options that you can use, you know, here is the easiest combination of options that you could go with. But what combination will you get to? I for sure will be using that analogy as I teach this new concept that I am introducing to the mastermind when we get started in August.

It’s very in alignment with that philosophy that I’ve shared before of like, you know, take what you need and leave the rest on the table, and feeling confident enough that you don’t need every single number on that combination in order to be successful. You just need your numbers, right? And you can leave the rest behind. And different people can choose different numbers.

I loved this analogy so much. Also the potty training one. Like if you don’t quit and you’re willing to try a variety of things when it doesn’t quite connect, you’re going to get there. Do you believe that? You will get it if you don’t quit and you’re willing to just keep trying a bunch of different things until you get there.

And then I really just want to reiterate that where we started in the conversation, there were so many great smaller conversations in this interview, but feeling confident enough to challenge your mentors and community leaders in a way that is beneficial to the both of you, and not making any one person wrong. Caroline was so good at this. And really seeing, us coaches, we are not gods. We should not be put on a pedestal,

We can get some things wrong. There was something that she challenged me on in the live event last February and I have since changed it. As we go into the next round in August I now teach that thing differently because she raised her hand and said, “Wait a minute, I’m not 100% sure I’m on board with this.” It made me analyze whether or not I really wanted to keep doing that thing.

Some things she raised her hand on I was like, “No, that is 100%. I appreciate that you asked the question, that you’re willing to get curious.” And then she was able to understand why me, her coach, her teacher, her guide was saying what I was saying and then she was able to apply it.

So what did you need to hear today? Find the post for this podcast on social media and share and tag me and Caroline. I am @IamAmyLatta and Caroline is @Caroline_Holke_Coaching, and that is H-O-L-K-E. So Caroline_Holke_Coaching. I don’t think we put the underscores in there when we were talking in the interview, so I want to make sure that you can find us. But what did you need to hear today? Find the post, share what you needed to hear so that other people can pick up on that too.

And we start the Path To 100K Mastermind the first week of August. August 3rd is the welcome reception at the live event. August 4th is the first day of the live event. If you can be there live, fabulous. If you can’t we have the virtual option.

The next round does not start until February of 2023. You could have your first five figure month, just like Caroline, in that time. Why wait? If you know you know how to sign clients, it’s just a little all over the place, or you think that you have to really hustle or it just feels too exhausting but your belief is there that it can happen, this is the mastermind for you, amylatta.com/mastermind. And until next week, let’s get paid coach.

Coaches, I have created a brand new freebie offer just for you podcast listeners. I created a brand new training called Stop Over-Complicating Confidence. Because I see my coaches do it all the time, make this confidence thing way harder than it has to be.

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Thanks so much for listening to The Confident Coaches Podcast. I invite you to learn more. Come visit me at amylatta.com and until next week, let’s go do epic stuff.